Scaling Sales with AI—Insights & Impact, Markus Möller Meetric

Wilma Eriksson: [00:00:00] Hi, you have Tuning to Fail and Grow is an operational, uh, podcast. Opics fail and grow is for you who wanna increase your revenue and become more profitable by listen, learning and laughing by world class leader within opics. We're not just full of knowledge, but also humble enough to share their fuck ups and what they've learned from it.

Your host is NMA and one of the co-founders and the CEO of VQ configure. Price quote, which of course is similarly integrated to your cm. We are all about CM adoption, and we love to reduce the errors that actually occurs when using a spreadsheet for a quoting. So we do not like that. We love to increase the revenue and the ROI for the C instead.

Marcus: And today I have a true pleasure. To have someone who I met quite recently, but have deeply inspired me. So Marcus Eller is one of the founders to Bright [00:01:00] Bid. He is currently the COO in nitric. And he said, when I, I always ask my guests to brag a little bit about themselves so I can do that in the podcast.

And he said, well, I didn't do anything really special. And I was like, yeah, right. So what he actually did in Bright Bid, he managed to be, uh. The top 5% of the fastest growing SaaS companies in Europe during three years. Quite impressive to me at least. And also he had to cut down his sales organization to Hoff, but uh, double the results from before.

So to me that is very, very, very interesting. And, uh, metric, uh, are a very interesting, um, uh, if, if I could say so, AI note taker, that is the, actually the. That is GDPR compliant for real. And during last year, they, uh. Four tripled, four doubled. You say sales on the [00:02:00] 2024 quadrupled. Quadruple. Thank you. You see, I need help already quadruple the sales during 2024 and also, uh, signed partnership with really big telco players in Europe.

But the funniest thing here, the bragging about you, is that you have been sick and placed globally in World of Warcraft such a. Thank you so much, Wilma. Uh, I'm, I'm so happy to be here. Uh, and I'm so happy to do this with you. I, I usually don't do these kind of things, but I, I feel real comfortable, uh, doing it with you for, uh, I think the, the first or second time, something like that.

So yeah, super happy to be here. That's wonderful. Uh, I'm so happy that you're here. And actually, I, I didn't share this story to you beforehand, but when I met my fiance, he said that, uh, I'm a gamer. And I was like, okay. Uh, I mean, I'm in SaaS, you know, I've been in SaaS for like 15, 20 years, like too long.

And everyone in SaaS game game yeah, yeah. [00:03:00] Is a gamer, but I, I'm not, I really, I'm, I'm really not. And I was like, okay. And he was like, yeah, but that's like, isn't that like bad? And I, but how much are you gaming? Like 20 hours a week? And I was like, whoa. That is a lot, but okay. You, do you, uh, did you also play 20 hours a week to be that successful?

Or is he doing something wrong? I, I, I would, I would say like back in those days, and I, I, I would also add that this is like 15, 15, 16 years ago. I mean, I would call him a light way. I, I think, I think that during my most success, successful years, depending on how you, how you phrase it, I mean. I was spending a third of a year playing World of Warcraft.

Wow. And that is like all 24 hours. So, yeah. And I had to sleep and go to school in those other hours as well, so yeah. It was, it was, uh, but it was super fun. Yeah. What, I wanna do it again. Absolutely not. I'm, I'm, I'm done with [00:04:00] that phase of my life. You, you don't game at all? I do game, but at a ver what, what we as gamers would say, a very casual level.

So I, I still game, I, I play with my 7-year-old son. We play Fortnite. We do those kind of things, but I mean, yeah, it's, it's extremely casual nowadays. Like five hours a week or, yeah. Like 55 hours a week or something like that? No, no, just, just maybe five, six hours a week, something like that. Okay. Once you do a session, you, you, you, I mean, you don't wanna stop after for a minute, so you, you often pull off a like three hour session or something like that.

Right. I heard that too at home before we got kids. It's like dinner. Is it like in 40 minutes or is like more. I'm like, I don't know, maybe 26. I haven't counted. Then I realized like the games like Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can you throw one in there? Yeah, exactly. Okay. But, uh, metric, with, with your words, uh, what do you [00:05:00] do and to whom?

Uh, we're a conversational AI platform and, uh, as you, as you said yourself, I mean, the most common way that people experience this type of technology today is through note takers. Where we differ is that we don't only access video calls. We do this for phone calls. We do this for physical meetings, and eventually we'll do it for your chat and, uh, email as well, which basically means that you have one platform that can track all conversation that goes on in a.

Organization, uh, and also analyze, uh, the rafter. So you don't have to build these sort of silos between, for example, sales and CSM or support or, uh, management even. I mean, you can have, uh, one platform too. Yeah. If we're in the gaming, like references one platform to rule them all. Yeah. That's a great expression.

Okay. When I was looking for it [00:06:00] too. I mean, we are a small startup scale up. I don't, to be honest, I don't really know when, when you're switching to something else. Uh, but then I, it was, it's very, very important for us to be through GDPR compliant. Uh, and when. I looked at some other tools. They said we are fully GDPI compliant.

We have this, uh, SOC two thing. What, I don't even know what it is, but it sounded good, you know, but we send all data to the US and then I asked you, do you also send all data to us? Uh, and what were your answer and could you describe where I actually fell in love with? So, so my answer was actually yes as well.

But of course with a tweak, uh, one of the things that we do, uh, that most others does not, is we anonymize all, all, um, uh, data that could be considered, uh, personal or, uh, that could identify you as a company, as a person. Credit card numbers, phone numbers, stuff like this. Everything is anonymized [00:07:00] and. Then we unpack it once we get it back.

Pretty much. So no sensitive data gets sent across Atlantic or anywhere else. Uh, on a good note, I would like So also like to add, which is nice for you as well. Wilma for Vlo Q is, we've actually updated now, so we don't send anything to, uh, across Lan Atlantic at all. So we, we've actually improved since last week.

Wow. That is crazy. That is good to know. Is this a common question or was it me, just me that had been like too nerdy about something and too afraid of not closing that big dream customer that has very high compliance requirements. I think that doesn't matter if I speak with someone that has like five end users or someone that has 5,000, I think in every first meeting.

This is something that we have to walk through because if, if not in the beginning, because you already knew when you came into the call, but for for others, that doesn't perhaps bring it up directly. It is [00:08:00] something that once we start talking about the feature, about the insights about the AI assistant functions, they, they feel like, yeah, this is in the area where I have to ask this.

So I, I don't think I've been in one single call where we haven't ran into it. Good to know. Good to know. Okay, nice. And, uh, can everyone use metric or do you have a preferred, uh, ideal customer profile or, I don't know. No, we, we, we, we don't have an ICP in that sense. We, we have a very broad. Uh, range of customers and what we have done instead of going down a specific niche vertical is we've made our platform extremely customizable.

So no matter if you're in sales or, or if you're in, uh, customer support or whatever it might be, you can actually build your own AI agents super easy. You don't have to be a developer to do this and, uh, sort of extract the data that you need to make your everyday [00:09:00] a lot smoother. And of course, just get better insights that you can make decisions on.

Mm-hmm. And when talking about AI adoption, I mean, uh, I wa I went, uh, to, uh, last week and it, I mean, it's AI everywhere. Um, the adoption of ai. To me feels like I'm quite close. I, I I describe your company as an AI note taker. I heard you said something much more professional, but is this like the one of the first steps you take?

Or from your point of view, what would you see say this? Yeah, I, I, great question and, and I, of course, I'm, I'm a bit biased in when, when, when getting asked this question, but 100%, whether it be or something else. I think that. Many of the AI tools that I see out there. I mean, it, it's a, it's a bit fragmented.

It's a bit abstract. It, it's really cool, but does it really provide you with any meaningful [00:10:00] value? I think that conversational AI is amazing because, I mean, every company has tons of conversations and based on those conversations, we are supposed to make decisions as well. But I mean, to, to be able to track those and extract things that is going on in the organization.

I mean, it's, it's crucial and it's, it's so easy to implement as well compared to everything else. Uh, at least that's my experience. So, yeah, I, I would say this is the best first halt if you're looking to take your. Company into the, the 21st century. Absolutely. And what, what do you say, I mean, you, I know you sell obviously to different industries in different countries, different personas, organization size.

Uh, can you see some, uh, some pattern here? Who are most adaptable to ai? I would say what, what you see is American companies have come. [00:11:00] Uh, much longer than European companies in, in this sense. Surprise. Surprise.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Marcus: Uh, and, and they also have, I, I, I believe that they, they realize the value, at least this is my experience, which is of course, limited.

But I mean, what I, what I've seen is the way that they implemented, they see this as a must have, not a nice to have. Right. They realize that yeah, conversations is like one of the crucial things that, that we must track. And I, I've heard one guy that worked in sales, I mean he, he said like, okay, so. What's going on in the conversations has pretty much been a black hole to us because obviously we contract that, that would require too much man hours.

Wilma Eriksson: Hmm.

Marcus: Now I can just easily access, I mean, the insights that I'm actually after and make for my decisions based on that. Previously it was based on results and, uh, activity, at least for him in sales. I mean, that, that's the things you track, right? How, how much [00:12:00] activity are we doing? And, uh. What, what are the results coming from it?

Uh, not so much what's going on in a meeting 'cause it's was super hard to track before this. Yeah. And we almost like entering now the topic of the day, but it feels very narrow when, when you describe it like that. And I at least could, yeah, it was like activities, ance and maybe some quality measurement, like who are we talking with, of course.

But, uh, not the communication itself. No. It's, it's, it's super hard. I, I remember when Richard, the f the founder of Metric, I mean, I, I started out as a client. I mean, he sold to me at Bright Pit when I had this like, yeah, during 2023 when it was this, uh, really hard times for sauce companies and we needed horrible year.

Yeah. Horrible year. So, I mean, I, I basically got the, the task of, of cutting down, like yeah. Half my sales force and, and of course I still needed to deliver. It's the same or better results [00:13:00] as, as previous year. Right. And I, I quite fast realized that if, if I'm gonna do this, it can't be through activity because we're, we're already running so extremely fast.

So we have to work on hit rate, we have to work on how effective we are with, with the things we're being served. That's when I started looking at this type of technology and these type of companies. And I remember what, what Richard said to me when, when he once once sold me, he got me with basically one meaning he asked me, so Marcus, do you have a nice sales structure?

Do you have great processes? And I was, yeah, we got amazing sales structure and amazing processes. Look at our growth, I mean, judged by yourself. And I said, well, that's amazing to hear Marcus, but how do you ensure. If your processes are being followed in the meetings. And, you know, silence. So true. Yeah.

Silence. Silence. Fill the room.

Wilma Eriksson: You know,

Marcus: I, I try, as I say, as a [00:14:00] salesman, I try to come up with some, you know, bullshit answer, but, but I mean, no, no. There, there was no answer. I can't for something. Yeah, exactly. I'm looking at maybe two out of each a hundred meetings or something like that. Obviously that doesn't provide me with enough insights.

Very interesting. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, I have so many more questions. I'm gonna post them for some, uh, more. Um, uh, well, uh, I would say, uh, maybe not so interesting question for everyone, but it's funny. Hopefully. Yeah. So the first one is your favorite of the work drink. Uh, maybe you're celebrating something or. I don't know, you know, free time with family wherever you are.

Happiest. What could I pour in your glass, Marcus? Yeah. I'm, I'm just coming off like three months of, uh, three white months. Uh, yeah. Yeah. We have been doing a cap raise and I, I can't drink during those. I need to be focused, so, but. I mean, yeah, you would win me over if you [00:15:00] served me, uh, Onic Hendricks or, or something similar to that.

I'm, I'm quite easy and I mean, but even if you would offer me a beer, I mean, after a long day simply is often best. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I'm, I'm quite easily won over. So have you celebrated that round with Agin and to, or is it round still going? The rounds still going I'll, uh, I'm going to London on the 12th and that's, that's when I'm actually done with my three months as well.

So. Enough, we we're. As long along the road as we should be. So now then I feel it. Yeah. Now I can give myself a onic once again and hopefully we're gonna tie down some, uh, pretty good partnerships in London as well. So, I mean, then I'll have a reason to celebrate exciting times ahead. And you are, uh.

Funniest work related fuck up that you wanna share. And you said it was a little bit tricky to share a funny one. So now I'm even more curious what could it be? Yeah. Because I mean, fuck ups, we have plenty of that. That is not the [00:16:00] issue than whether, whether I consider them to be funny or not. No, perhaps not.

I think, and all of them are great learning experiences. Uh. But, but I think one, one that actually you often speak about entrepreneurs and how they forsake their, uh, their personal life because of o obviously their work. So I had just met my, my now wife, believe it or not, ba based on this story. We, we were like one year in and.

This was during my bright period time, and we were gonna host this, uh, event with some of our most important customers. And, uh, I was in charge of like arranging this, uh, we were gonna cook with the customers. It was gonna be super nice. And I mean, I planned everything. I planned the date. I planned the time.

I, yeah, it, I made like, yeah, it was a, it was a good event. Only one problem though is. Yeah, I did this on my, on my now wife's 30th birthday. So I mean, [00:17:00] out of all the times I possibly could have chosen, I mean, yeah, SSA big deal, so, uh, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm thankful she, she forgave me and is still part of my life.

I, I have a similar story, but it's my, my ex-boyfriend, we were together for over a decade and he still one of my best friends and I'm a very friends and happy for that. But we had been together for like, I think it meant maybe was like two or three years, but at least, you know. Somewhat more time. Mm-hmm.

And then he called me, he was working within, uh, the steel industry, if you say so. Yeah. And he was like, uh, do we do anything special on the 22nd of March? Uh, and I didn't even time to answer because I booked, uh, a trip to Amsterdam with my like 30 biggest customers. I'm like, why are you calling? And it was said, yeah, but do we have something special?

Then I was like. Well, I don't know if it's [00:18:00] special, but it's my birthday. So Have fun in the red light district wherever you go. Yeah, exactly. You can stay there. You can stay there. Yeah. So that wasn't, that wasn't great, but I, I stuck with him for like seven more years or something. So. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maybe it's a great start. I dunno. Yeah, no, exactly. And I mean, that's, that's, that's the poor thing for, for my wife as well. I mean, I, I never gave it much thought, but I mean, looking back now on our past four years, I mean, she, she's on the 30th of March, so it's always by the close closing of a quarter, so, so I mean it, yeah, it's either a super nice, it's.

Yeah, it's, yeah, 100% it is. So it's either a super nice birthday or you mean, or I have. Failed on my quarterly goals and I'm like super angry. I'm super pissed and it's a horrible birthday for her. It's good and that you have a very good track record within sales, so hopefully this year be good. [00:19:00] Hopefully keep my fingers crossed.

That's her hope as well.

Wilma Eriksson: Oh

Marcus: yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. And obviously it's more, more, more people than you that done a very similar mistake.

Okay, so now I'm gonna try to be more serious again, and we are, uh, we're digging into today's topic, uh, which. This was actually a phrase that you said, I think during, uh, your sales presentation metric to me. So you said hunt for truth, insights gained with ai and I was like, oh my God, you have to be in my podcast show.

This is awesome. You know, so I obviously a bit starstruck there, but what, what we are curious in, um. When you met Richard, uh, that presented metric to you and obviously Bright Bid is a great story itself, uh, and very successful too. Um, when you hear that hunt for truth inside gain with ai. How would you like to approach it, and [00:20:00] what's your take on this?

Well, I, I would probably share my, my own experience. I, I think that is most powerful. And so obviously Richard sold me, right? So I, I got going with this. And one, one of the features, one of the things that, yeah, I, I just explained how he got me like, by like, how do you ensure your processes are being followed?

So one of the features in Metric is that you can. Put in all your like process for different meeting types. Okay, so this is a discovery meeting. This is how we, this is what we're supposed to do at a discovery meeting. And then you get back like, uh, yeah, did we do it or didn't we do it? And you can look at individual sales reps, you can look at individual teams and all these different things, right?

And. In a perfect world, I mean, obviously when, when we have been, when we had been doing this for for one or two months, the most ideal situation would be that those sales reps that was performing the best, those were, that were bringing in the results. [00:21:00] Obviously they in a perfect world, would also top the chart of playbook fulfillment.

They would be the ones that actually had like 98, 100% fulfillment and. To my ego's disappointment. Of course, that was not the case. I mean No, no. I mean, people were in, in some instances they were cowboys. They were doing things their own way, but still managed to bring in results. But, and once you put your ego aside and, and actually look at it for, for what it is, I mean, it, it is the truth.

And what are we doing here? If, if not hunting for truth? If this is not a pursuit of truth, I mean, it, it must be. And once I, once I sort of took that approach to it, I could start doing quite, quite amazing things I could start doing. I mean, I, I, bright Pit is a marketing company. We often talk about AB testing.

And that is something that is fairly hard and [00:22:00] at least a follow in sales. Sure, you can give people different processes, but then again, how do you ensure they are being followed at, at all? What I did, I, I took the most successful guys in Norway. I took some of the things that they did differently. I applied it to Denmark and I started looking, okay, so how, how does Denmark's results differs?

And obviously you have to do this over time. This is not something that you do just one or two months and then you start looking at, okay, so. Do we believe that this is the thing that actually improved performance or was this something that we can just address to the Cowboys in Norway and it works for them, but for not for anyone else.

But that is the things that you can start actually looking at and, and solving the, the, the headaches that are actually there, rather than what you believe is there, or, or what the sales organization believes is there because it, it's a very emotional industry as well. I mean, we, we are driven by emotions.

Uh. Now you can actually look at objective data. So that, that is quite [00:23:00] powerful and that that is what I mean with the, the hunt for truth or the pursuit of truth, right? And, um, uh, many of us working in sales come surprise, surprise from sports and my sports, uh, was show jumping with horses. And my trainer always said that we have to identify the weakest link because the weakest link will, uh, will give the results.

And that, yeah, your highs will be much lower due to this link. And when I think about this, that to me is like the process itself that we have like a standardized process with best practice as we know of. But then you come to the part like. Every sales rep are different. I mean, we are humans and people are extrovert, introvert, they have different backgrounds and so forth.

How do you handle this? I mean, you have the process of best practices. You take the cowboy, cowboy styles and try to influence that. Uh, how do you do that balance? To me, that is like, that is like [00:24:00] the magic touch, uh, to force everyone into the same press process. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, it's super, super, super good question.

And, and I, I would probably say that like, yeah, I, I agree 100% and, and it's this sort of balance between giving the individual what the individual needs, but also of course, I mean, the key to scale is. Building processes that can be replicated. I mean, that, that is like the big jump that uh, I know people often talk about in, in a and you talk about the founder led growth stage, and one of the hardest parts is to sort of make the transition so that the organization can run without the founder, without the founder sales, pretty much so, so I mean, processes are super important.

But of course, seeing the individual is as well, and I don't believe in. Putting in, if, if you take the example that [00:25:00] I just gave, for example, I mean, the way that I look at it is that, okay, so we had some top performers that were doing things completely different. I mean, don't change what's working. That's, that's number one I would say.

I mean, if it is working on, on all levels, I mean, don't change what's working and what would then rather look at, okay, so is this something that can help other individuals? Yeah. Maybe it's, or maybe it isn't. I mean, we we'll see on the results. But being able to track these things, I think is something that is gonna help the individual extremely much.

I, I love the reference that you did with, with sports, for example, and we look at adaptation. If you look at a soccer team today and a fairly professional one, I mean, they have video analytics in, even in the lower leagues, they're looking at everything that a player does. I mean, not to put them down, but I mean to show them what improved.

To show them how they can perform better, and I [00:26:00] think that should be. The approach that you take in, whether it be sales or whatever it might be. I think that is professional pride. Try to be good at what you're actually doing each day. Um, at least it's for me. And, um, yeah, I did that answer your question?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think so. Um, I was just thinking about the next question as a podcast host should do, but it's a super nerdy, nerdy passion of mine. This, and, and I was thinking, okay, but you said in the beginning. That beforehand we had activity and the, and of course we can communicate with people and even though we don't enter the meetings, we're having co co meetings, we can still ask them about it.

And people are fairly honest and they have a CM system, so you can tell somewhat of that. But when you implemented more AI in your sales process overall for, for your full sales organization, what was like the one or two or three things that you felt was an eye opener to you that gave you that? Extra [00:27:00] power, if you will, to really understand what actually works and where.

Yeah, I, I believe that one of the things that metric has is, uh, where, where it differs as well, besides that we can get, gather from many sources is that, so we have dashboards, and dashboards in itself doesn't make sense. But if I explain to it to you like this, so if I have 10,000 recordings from the past two months, for example.

That in itself, even if I have the transcriptions from these, that in itself doesn't provide me with much value because I don't have the time. Of course, what the dashboards allow me is to sort of jump one layer up and take a look at this from an organizational standpoint. So one of the, the things I, I always right or wrong, I always try to focus on the parts that are struggling, right?

So if, if Norway, for example, is having a bad month. That quarter, that is where I put most of my energy because I also know that [00:28:00] once I get the low performers going, the other ones are gonna step another step pretty much. And so what I could do with this sort of insight, some of the things that I looked at, for example, I filtered and I looked at Norway and I looked at, looked at closed, lost, or I filtered in that sense.

And then I looked at, uh, most common objections. In our lost deals, and I instantly then, you know, in a, in a one second button, click, got access to, okay, so these are some of the objections that we are obviously struggling with. And I could look at these, I could see them granularly, so I could see like, yeah, this is the top one.

Objection, this is the top two, this is top three. I could then compare it to the, what, what we would say the the good performing countries. I could say, okay, is it the same? But then I can deep dive into this. I can start looking at, okay, so how are we handling these objections? Why aren't we getting through?

What are the most common [00:29:00] questions asked from the close lost clients? What are we missing out on instead of just, I. Doing, you know what, what we all have been doing for so many years, we just, we just do this sort of sales workshop and we work through all the things that we believe is gonna help. Mm-hmm.

But it, but it's really, you know, I mean, that old method, it's like taking a. Painkiller when you, when you need to amputate the arm. I mean, it, it doesn't, it doesn't solve the issue at all. It's no drama. No, no, no. Exactly. Cut that exactly. Perhaps too dramatic cut up. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Okay. So, uh. Uh, much better data.

It gave you the possibility to do a further analytics. What actually would matter? Yeah. Of, of the most important thing I would say as well. Yeah. I mean, not, not the most important I think, I still believe, I mean, activities is a core KPI for myself and, and my organizations that [00:30:00] I'm part of. Like, yeah, if we don't work hard, I mean people are gonna outwork us and we won't let that happen.

We'll, right, but then of course, to be able to. Make a stop and look at what you're doing and then analyzing what you're doing. I mean, that's, that's the key to growth. I mean, I would say, uh, if you, if you can incorporate those two things in a great fashion, I mean, yeah, then good things will happen.

Absolutely agreed. So when you got this, um, uh, information, uh, that you had to cut down your sales organization, but the targets were the same, um, I just assumed that wasn't something you were thrilled about. So my next question, or my actually question would be like, okay, so what did you do and how did you approach this?

We have understood that the metric part is one of the things, and maybe it's more. Come, and that comes to the communication part, but what did you do, [00:31:00] uh, to ensure the were as high or higher? Yeah, so, so first of all, we, one, one half to of course to mention this as well, that, I mean, what we, we improved our hit rates with I think 50% when we looked at it afterwards, but.

Of course, one of the things that we should take into account as well is when, when you, when you're forced to make cuts, I mean, of course you cut where it bleeds, but still you don't, you don't cut your top performer. I mean, you, you start at a bottom most likely. So I mean, that, that is one factor that needs to be taken into this stats as well.

Wilma Eriksson: Right.

Marcus: But what I, what I implemented was I implemented merick. So I, first of all, just with the basic recording and transcriptions, I. There you get some insights and it sort of, um, amplifies me as a coach and it amplifies the different sales leaders that we have throughout the organization because all of a sudden they don't have to be in the meeting at that time.

So that is just the good [00:32:00] things about recording. But then once we started gathering data, we could sort of, if, if we had this gut feeling that, okay, so we believe that this person is doing this thing wrong, and this might be. What's stopping them? I remember I had one guy, I, every time I looked at him, he was doing things perfectly.

I mean, honestly, it was textbook sales. Absolutely. And, but he didn't get him in. And I, I couldn't understand what it was when I had merick. What I simply did was when, when I got this hunch, I, I believe that he perhaps made it too much of a technical barrier to join. He, he made it sound a bit, uh. Tough with the implementation.

So they, they always felt like, yeah, because we started looking at the, uh, reasons for not taking it. And it was always, it was never, no, it was always, yeah, we just have to fix this and that and that, and then we are prepared to make [00:33:00] this journey with you. So we started looking at how he presents those, the implementation parts, and we solved that.

And I think we did this in. March. We, we sort of made this discovery. We, we enabled mitric in late January and quarter two. He was our top performer. I mean, it was insane. So we solved this 'cause, 'cause you know the feeling when you, when you're working with someone and they're doing everything right, it's, it's textbook, but the results won't come in.

Hmm. It's sad. It's very sad. It it, it is. And I mean, that, that's the thing. In a different scenario, maybe he was one of the guys that we perhaps would've been forced to let go. Right? Right. But I mean, now, now we could actually find the truth of what was going on. Mm-hmm. So that there, there's also a reference to the pursuit of truth.

I mean, and

Wilma Eriksson: yeah, really sort of,

Marcus: and, and helping the individual, um. In a way that's not possible, uh, unless [00:34:00] you monitor everything that's going on, but then you neglect the rest of the organizations. It's a loose, loose situation. Right. Okay. So, uh, first, yeah. Uh, I don't know how to pronounce this in a nice way, but like the bottom performer, they were.

Uh, helped elsewhere. And then you were looking into like the individuals you really believed in and tried to help them out. Uh, you talked about earlier that you had a great processes, uh, maybe very clear ICP. Was it other things as well that helped you, uh, to ensure great with. Uh, maybe very stronger Salesforce, but much fewer.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I, I would say, I would say you can't understate the, the impact of amplifying the leaders, uh, of allowing them to actually give the individual to, to do the individual coaching in a manner that hasn't been possible earlier. Right. So all of a sudden I can look at. [00:35:00] These different things.

I can look at the demo itself. I can look at the presentation. I can look at the closing or the, the booking of next meeting. I don't even have to look at it, but I can rather put it into my process and ensure that it's being followed. And once we see that it's not being followed, I mean, we can be there and we can nudge.

I mean, I'm, I'm not supposed to be big brother, but I'm supposed to be there and help people actually achieving their goals. And I, I also believe that. The team was fully on board on that sense that, I mean, and they, they knew me to that extent as well. So they know that I almost wanted more than themselves, them to succeed.

Um, and I think that that's super important as well. I mean, if you use this type of technology as some sort of big brother functionality, I mean, then, then it's not gonna be adapted in the, in the way that you want. You're not gonna get the results that you want. It has to come from a help. Achieve better things.

Definitely. What would you say was most challenging [00:36:00] during this, this time? In, in general? I would say, I would say that the actual cutting of the people. I mean, that's what, that was people that I loved and had spent a lot of time with. So that I, that's, that is never fun. Uh, when it, when it comes to the actual work, I mean.

Everyone knew what the task was. We had clear set goals. We, we knew what needed to be done for us to, to, to achieve this. So I believe that was, I mean, that was grit and it was hard work and a, a, a lot of like, just attitude that got us through it. Uh. But I mean, I, I, I wouldn't look at any of those months and say like, yeah, that, that was the toughest or that was the biggest challenge.

It was regular sales work just being done in a much more efficient way. Curious to you. Very impressive. And from a customer perspective, why is it important for them? To be efficient and to have [00:37:00] this, uh, I mean much more, I would say maybe it's a boring word, but data-driven, uh, insights that you actually make your sales organization more efficient by.

Why is it important for the customer? Yeah. And, and just to be clear, you're talking about like, for example, matrix customer or, or you're talking about the customer that is being served by the metric client or? Mm, very good question. I mean, maybe I could argue for both. I can't imagine. But, uh, I mean, in general to have, um, more insights and be more precise maybe.

Why is that important for customers to be able to work in that efficient way? Yeah, I think, I think that is part of the things that is important. I think obviously getting the right insights and being able to make decisions on those are, are key to running an, an organization in a, in a, in a great manner.

But then I would also say that. Perhaps one of the things that we haven't spoken about is you asked me [00:38:00] earlier the differences, uh, between adoption, for example, and I I mentioned that the US are, yeah, they have been adopting this a lot faster. So if, if we look and we compare American companies that have adopted to AI and compare them with European counterparts that haven't, I mean.

One of the biggest thing that you see besides hit rate, besides coaching, besides insight, is simply workflow automation. I mean, bill May, you've been working in sales, uh, most of your adult life, if I recall correctly. I mean, how much time is being spent on. Logging into the CRM if, if you even do it. And I've been selling CRM for five years, so one of the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's another story. Yeah, exactly. How do we get, how do we get people to actually populate the CRM? Right. We're paying millions for it. So sales reps or, or doesn't have to be sales rep, just, just. People [00:39:00] overall in working in an office. I mean, they spend so much time in meetings and they prepare for meetings and they send out information after the meetings.

A sales rep, I, I saw some data on it, they are spending like 30% of their time on admin tasks. And I mean, if, if you remove 10% or even 15% and, and put that on prospecting just for the sake of it, I mean, if, if you look at what you pay, pay your sales organization. And you deduct 15% of it, or, or, or, or rather, you would hire, you get 15% more of it, uh, but at no cost.

I mean, that's a massive number. I mean, that's for, for most companies it is. And that's one of the things that I see in Europe. But 2023 and 2024 perhaps, was it, it was okay to sort of stand on the sidelines and look at AI and, okay, this looks nice. Maybe we should adapt it. Maybe we should not. But I honestly do believe that [00:40:00] companies that does not try to implement AI in a, in a meaningful way and haven't really, I mean, taken steps in doing so.

They will get passed, they will get ran by, 'cause I mean they will burn out workers faster. I mean, they will lose the top talent because obviously they will go where, somewhere where they don't have to do these different tasks and they can be efficient and make more money. They will. I. Make poorer decisions as well, because they lack the insights they have, the conversations they just have don't have a mean of actually getting to them.

And one of the things in this modern day and age as well, I believe, is that when Blockbuster, I mean lost the, I mean the famous, when Netflix surpassed them and I mean, took over through digital transformation, I mean. That was not something that happened in like two or three months or, or one year. I mean, that was during several years, uh, during like the rise of the digital age.

Right. One thing that we should realize now is that [00:41:00] one or two years in this day and age, I mean, it's, it's a lot faster than it was back then. I think that someone that did that is market leader today could easily be surpassed by someone. Like in a very short time, you saw how open ai, I mean from one day to another was one of the most valued companies in the world.

I mean, it's, things go so much faster now. So I think it's super important and crucial to sort of. Take the steps or Europe is already behind, but it's up to us. I mean, how, how much are we gonna stay behind? Right. And I, I mean, uh, obvious been within SA and the selling system by all means. Mm-hmm. Uh, for like too long.

Uh, and now, uh, trying to like, I know, you know, uh, spread the passion about what CPQ can do to your business if you are in need of that, uh, it's, it's quite hard. When, if, if we take CPQ, that SQ provides with, uh, 83% of our sales rep in [00:42:00] the US has some kind of CPQ, uh, and if you, I would never, I. Cold call and like, hi, my name is Wilma.

I'm a co-founder to a CP company. Because people would be like, what? So I mean, the ones that have done the big buying digitalization and AI and so forth. Um, maybe it is because due to the organization size, if we look to Sweden, companies in general are, I mean, quite small. Uh, we are a small company ourselves, so nothing bad about that.

Uh, we have to start somewhere, but the organization in the US in general are much bigger. Therefore, you like have to, or it makes much more sense to look into these efficient ga uh, gaps. I don't know, it's just. Uh, a thought that I've been running around with too long. Yeah, I, I think it's, I think it's spot on.

I mean, I mean, obviously if you're selling a sales tool, I mean, speaking to [00:43:00] someone, working in rev ops is of course gonna be, I mean, amazing because they understand exactly what this is. But I mean, if you talk to a company that does not really grasp the area that you're trying to, I mean, spread the knowledge about, I mean, it's, it's, it's like introducing a car to someone using a horse and wagon.

I mean, I. It, it looks cool and, and perhaps that is a bit too dramatic of, of a comparison, but, but, but I mean, you're showing something new and for most people it takes quite a long time to sort of get over that first. Yeah. Okay. So what is this? I think we need to be more curious in, in Europe overall, I think that is we, we, we have these like old institutions of companies that has been doing something and, and that, that has processes that is built for different times.

That is actually a, a quote that I got from a meeting the other day. Our, our processes are built for another day and age, but they realize it themselves. But I mean, the process of changing is so massive in itself. I. [00:44:00] Yeah. Um, but you have to start somewhere. I mean, that, that is for sure. You really do. And I think, uh, uh, I think what you said, to be more curious, you can take you far, uh, as board members be more curious.

I. Don't be that afraid. Adopt a change. I mean, that's, this is old stuff, but, but yet, mm, very interesting. Okay. Is this something I should have asked you that we haven't talked about already when it comes to like the hunt for truth, uh, insight scheme with ai, something that you would like to wrap up the topic with?

I think we. Touched quite many things, uh, to be fair, uh, in, in this amazing conversation where we hip happed through everything, so no, no, we have to wrap it up with ai. Yeah. With respect of, of the duration of the podcast as well. I mean, we, we guess at some point we have to wrap it up. I mean, it's, it's a subject that I love and I mean, at some point we're gonna sit down and we're gonna.

Grab that. Uh, what, what was your after work [00:45:00] drink? Uh, I'm a bit boring. I love, you know, some, uh, old, too expensive champagne, you know, that is my super favorite. Otherwise I go for it. More or less. Eno Energy and tonic. Uh, and like, surprise me with, uh. With a new drink. I haven't drink drunk before, so like espresso martini was one of the latest one, uh, old fashioned.

I tried out with a very important person at the partner company. She knows who she is and I was like, I don't, I haven't tried that one. I'll try it. And I was like, whoa, I will not take more of these, these. Powerful to me. It, it, it, it's, it's not for everyone. Yeah. But obviously that, that will, uh, yeah. So very old expensive champagne.

I mean, I'm, I'm glad there isn't that barrier. I mean, so yeah. We'll make that happen. I also said I could do energy and tonic, but Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Looking forward to that. And, uh, you, yourself, who do, who do you [00:46:00] get, uh, most inspired by regarding, uh, this topic? Yeah, I'm, I'm actually gonna go, uh, backwards in time on, on this one because obviously, I mean, saying like Mark Andresen or someone like that would make a lot of sense and, and perhaps more on brand, but, but actually, I, I remember one of the first sales books I read, it was this guy called Joe Gerard, and, uh, he wrote a book called How to Sell Yourself.

And so basically his story was, he was, uh, the Guinness World Record book holder of selling the most cars in the, in the us in Detroit, I think it was. Mm. So he sort of broke down the process of how he worked and how extremely efficient he was, and I mean, his, his whole process and what he believes, what he believed to be like the core of his success, how it actually relates to.

This is that. I mean, I tried for so many years to, to be like Joe in, in the sense, I mean, he was tremendous. [00:47:00] His activity was amazing. He logged everything amazingly. I mean, he, in, in, he, I mean he sent Christmas cards, he sent these kind of things, but he kept, he kept everything in, in his, in his books, you know?

I never accomplished anything similar to that before, before metric, and before. I mean, conversational ai, because now I have my AI assistant that is with me every day, every time, whatever conversation I'm in, pretty much. So, I mean, for, for me, it. He, he's a great inspiration and this type of technology has helped me to become more, more like him.

Cool. Even with, uh, your wife or soon to be wife or what? Yeah. Well, it was wife to remember all the days for that. Yeah, exactly. MI is for, uh. So, so long. At least it's, it's for, uh, commercial, uh, commercial industry. Commercial. Sounds good. So I, I have, I haven't implemented, so unfortunately for, for the [00:48:00] sake of my marriage, we, we don't have this sort of functionality yet.

Okay. I can just give you a short, short advice at Google Calendar, you know, on recurring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She, she, she, she, part of mine, and she, she's making updates in it constantly, and I try. Wonderful. That's great. Well, very in inspir. I haven't heard about that book. Maybe I should have, but I would definitely, uh, shake it out.

So the outro, what are your main challenges in your business right now? So we're in the scaling phase and. Scaling efficiently while keeping the product simple and powerful. I mean, that is, that is a challenge. We wanna grow fast, but, but we also wanna ensure our AI remains truly useful. So it does not become just another shiny tool.

Uh. But I mean, still, I mean, when the technology is going this fast, it's, it's easy to get carried away in the, in the sort [00:49:00] of feature race and, and just keep throwing things out there. Yeah, yeah. We can do this. Look, look at this new AI model that enables us to do that. But I mean, that, that is, that is I think one of our.

Main challenges and, and I think the other part is just educating companies about, about this type of technology and how it can effectively help them. I'm sure you'll manage with number two, and I feel you're number one. That is my short answer. I feel you all the features you wanna have, and then you're asking yourself should you really have that?

And then you have a new loop you can think about if you're awake middle of the night.

Wilma Eriksson: Mm. Great.

Marcus: Okay. And, um, who would you like me to invite to lingo? Maybe someone you would listen to yourself? Yeah, 100%. I would, uh, what was his name? He, he was actually in Break it today. Uh mm-hmm. You know, this new, uh, [00:50:00] developers, uh, ai, uh, lovable.

Hmm. Yes. I'm not sure what his name was, but I mean, obviously what he has done is tremendous. Uh, I've, I've tried the tool. Have you tried it? Tool? Uh, no I haven't. Uh, but my, uh, chairman of the board, um, founder, we have a WhatsApp, uh, very unserious conversations. Most of the time, sometimes very serious, you know, signing the booklet and so shit like this, my language.

But they have tried it out and they were very impressed and they tried to inspire me with this. Yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing. And I mean, the growth had a. Something out of this world as well. Yeah. So I mean, may, maybe he's, he's, he's not a like sales leader, but I mean, he can definitely speak for growth. Uh, so yeah, I mean he, yeah, I would definitely listen if you could get that guy on.

I'll try. He'd prob probably be [00:51:00] quite, uh. Popular at the moment, but, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It might be hard to get a hold of. Yeah. Very good idea. And okay. You are having that Genoni with Hendricks. I'm sharing one with you because I love that too. I, I hear, I mean, I sounded like a very spoiled girl, maybe dreaming of being one.

Uh, oops.

Uh, okay. So we have that, uh, human in our hand and the sun comes up and I know that this, this was a good quarter. What them listening to and what are we celebrating with? Yeah. I would, I would say, I mean, obviously I'm an all leader. I'm, I'm very much into French hip hop. Yeah. But if we were to do something more popular, I would, I would simply go with something like, can't hold us By Mackelmore, I mean, if we're, if we're closing a quarter.

I mean, something like that perhaps,

Wilma Eriksson: but then,

Marcus: but then it, then it's a party. I mean, then it's not enough to work anymore. [00:52:00]

Wilma Eriksson: Well, maybe to me enough work would be a party. It always starts, you know, calm and,

Marcus: yeah. Yeah. Doesn't anymore, just like those Friday lunches. Exactly, exactly. Well, looking forward having one of those with you, Marcus, thank you again for joining.

I've learned a lot. And cheers and have a great weekend. Likewise. Thank you for having me. And uh, yeah, have a great weekend. Your as well. Philmore. Return to the Mac. Get up what it is, what it does, what it is, what it is. Looking for a better way to get up out better instead of getting on the internet and checking a new hip kid comes stru walking.

Little bit of humble, a little bit of K is somewhere between like rocky and Cosby. Swear the game. Nope, nope, y'all can't copy yet. Milwaukee. And here is a party. My posse been way and we did music I my and put my bones, everything. Record to yet let that stage.