Pricing - your new tool for customer satisfaction and retention with Anna Hansen CPricingOfficer at Lime Technologies

Wilma Eriksson: [00:00:00] Hi, you a warmly welcome to fail and grow the home of pricing and profitability. This is where you get to learn and love from the best within the topic and the ones. Who dare to share their fuckups. If you love what we do, share this episode with a colleague or a friend who shares our nerdy passion about pricing and profitability.

I mean, who doesn't? My name is Verma, your host and the co-founder and the CEO of Vox, Q-C-P-Q-A perfect fit. When you're CRMs quoting, functionality isn't enough, but enough of this shape. Lets tune in into today's episode. Here we go. So today we have the pleasure to have Anna Hanson here. She's an expert and guest of today.

So Ingrow and what Anna doesn't know about customer centricity and customer success [00:01:00] isn't worth knowing. Anna is currently the chief customer officer, but exciting times is cap up those Anna's changing role to something. Extreme failing row to chief pricing officer, but we are gonna talk about more in that in a while.

She represent the company Lyme Technologies, who promised to create customer centric heroes, and they have a long history of successful growth. Actually since the mid nineties, that that itself is just so, so inspiring. So what they do, they are a leading company for software and experts and help them to truly succeed with their implementation in Northern Europe to ensure this successful customer journeys.

Anna, it's a great pleasure having you here.

Anna Hansen: Thank you Vima. It's a pleasure to be here.

Wilma Eriksson: Wonderful. And we try to schedule this podcast for some while. Uh, and I'm so sorry for messing it up, and I'm so happy to have you here today. Do you have a good bar?

Anna Hansen: Yes, I've had a good day. And as we said, [00:02:00] LinkedIn might not be the best.

Communication channel.

Wilma Eriksson: No, it isn't. And what, you know, what's very amusing with that? I, uh, uh, in my first like 60 episode or something of lingo, I always ask the, the guest, okay, where can one easily get intact? Yeah. Can contact of you? And everyone said LinkedIn and of course, you know it's easier to someone.

Mm-hmm. At least the inbox of LinkedIn. What is that of kind of mess. Yes,

Anna Hansen: exactly. There are better ways to schedule.

Wilma Eriksson: No, please. Really. So in short, about you mm-hmm. Your new road mm-hmm. And of course live. Would you, would you share your, your point of view?

Anna Hansen: Yes, of course. Thank you. Um, as you said, uh, today, lime is a company.

Uh, that is working with customer journeys and creating successful customer journeys for our customers. Uh, we started as a CRM company, uh, mid nineties, [00:03:00] and we've had a, uh, wonderful growth journey since then. I joined Lyme, uh, in 2008 and started as you normally do at ly. As a trainee. So I started as a sales trainee and then I've had the opportunity to be a part of Lyme and build this fantastic company, uh, mainly with focus on retention and upselling on our existing customers and mainly our Lyme CRM customers.

Wilma Eriksson: And how does it feel now to hand over that to someone else?

Anna Hansen: Yes. As you're saying, I'm now handing over the baby. Yeah. That I've been nurturing for about 10 years, uh, into our sales and expert services departments. But I believe, uh, it, it feels really, really good because the, the processes and the, the tasks that we have defined and that we have started to work with.

They're now [00:04:00] placed where they ought to be. Uh, customer success at our company shouldn't be something which is only a department. It should be certain things that we do through the whole customer journey. And then it's right to put it, uh, in sales and expert services. Of course, of course. So it feels

Wilma Eriksson: good actually.

It feels good. Okay. Good to hear. And your new role, chief Pricing Officer Chief. I mean, how, how awesome I was really about this. It's obvious. A shared passion.

Anna Hansen: Yeah. It's really awesome. Uh, I believe that in these times that we are, are working today, as you know, pricing has become even more important, uh, in the SaaS and tech business.

Um, and I guess at, we realized that pricing. In a broader sense, we'll, I think we'll come to that, but pricing is one more tool in the toolbox for customer satisfaction, for growth, [00:05:00] um, for cus for profitability. So we, I. Thought that to either we could, uh, buy, uh, the services of, uh, of, uh, expert consultants, uh, to, to help us with pricing, or we could do it in-house.

And we are used to do some. Things in house. So that's why we are focusing on this now, uh, in all our business units.

Wilma Eriksson: Very interesting. And okay, you have more or less, I mean, not your whole life, but a big part of your life at Lyme. Uh, and from my point of view, working at Lyme, it seems like a very fun place to work at.

Uh, truly humble people, uh, very sharp people. Uh, how would you describe. Uh, the Lyme journey as being one of their employees who've been there very long time. Super impressive.

Anna Hansen: Yeah. Uh, I mean, it's been an, [00:06:00] it's been a fantastic journey. Um, and I usually say that the company that I work at today is not the same company as we started us, of course.

Uh, but one thing, uh, is still the same, and that's the amazing people that we have at line

Wilma Eriksson: of course.

Anna Hansen: And, uh, we talked a bit about it before, but actually having the right people on the bus, as we say, recruiting is the cornerstone in our success. Yeah. To recruit the PE people who want to. Be on a growth journey who want to be entrepreneurs, uh, even though you are actually, uh, you are employed, but you need to be an entrepreneur and build the company of, of Lyme.

Um, so I'd say meeting all, all these people and working together with them to, to build lime as a company. It, I, I find it, uh, as much fun now as I did 15 [00:07:00] years ago when I started. And hopefully I will find it really, really fun. Uh, a few more years to come as

Wilma Eriksson: well. A few more years. Well, uh, I just seen your, I mean your not previously changes, but I mean, you're trying to be very innovative.

You have changed your brand, your role. I mean, obviously it's happening a lot of stuff. I know that you explore the markets outside of the Nordics and you do it successfully, uh, to me. It doesn't seem that you have to be bored just because you're been working on the same place first.

Anna Hansen: Absolutely not.

Absolutely not. Uh, on the contrary, I'd say that at Lyme you can have a fantastic growth journey, uh, as a person if you are that entrepreneurial. Person as well. Mm. Uh, so that you, you understand your main contribution. If I'm, if I am, uh, employed as a, as an account executive, my main contribution is sales, but also, uh, to be init, uh, [00:08:00] innovative and have ideas.

On how to grow our business. Uh, that is, that is what takes you to the next step at lineup. Interesting.

Wilma Eriksson: We could, uh, I feel that we could record a podcast about hiring the right people because so much other interesting stuff to talk about. Yes. But maybe in another podcast coming up. Yeah. Moving forward.

Okay. It's such a pleasure to have you here. And if we were to meet up in the, in, in real time, uh, in, I and I were at the work drink, what would you prefer to have in your glass?

Anna Hansen: Of course, something with lime,

Wilma Eriksson: of

Anna Hansen: course,

Wilma Eriksson: to talk, right? Living the brand.

Anna Hansen: I love it. So I would probably choose between, you know, uh, a mojito and a caprin.

Great choices. Especially now when, when we go towards spring and summer, hopefully,

Wilma Eriksson: I would say, because it's very late in April, we have a really cold, not a war God, but yeah, six week you have to, you have to cut that out. [00:09:00] We've had a long and cold spring. Yes. But it's, well, it felt like a war. Yeah. Okay. But lime, of course, that's a great, a great suggestion.

Uh, and Caprin. And Mohito. Why not? You couldn't go wrong with them.

Anna Hansen: No. Never.

Wilma Eriksson: And now I'm super curious to hear more about your funniest work related Fuck up before we jump into the reviews stuff of this podcast.

Anna Hansen: Yeah, I, I, I put a lot of thought into this. Uh, and now I'm going to expose myself a bit here.

I hope everyone catches me safely, who's listening. I love it. Um, but this is, this is, uh, a couple of years ago, uh, I was still working as. A, um, a account manager. So I was doing, it was before Corona. I was, I was doing a lot of physical visits, uh, and I love those, those are the best. Going out to the customer, meeting the customer, and I had been trying to book a meeting with one of our dream customers for a [00:10:00] really long time.

And I finally nailed it and I was on my way to see their COO. Uh, so I was a bit nervous, but I felt, well, I'm going to do a, a really good job here. So I got out of the car, I got into to the office building, and I rang the bell and they had a bell to ring. Okay. And I, uh, I bowed down because I wanted to pick something out out of my handbag.

And I split my pants. No, I split my pants so thoroughly so you could see my whole backside. Oh gosh. And I, I, I panicked for like one second, but I realized, I mean, the man, he, he at the door. To do something really, really fast [00:11:00] here. So, uh, I always carry a scarf in my, in my purse, in my handbag because, you know, sometimes it's chili and you could always use a scarf for something.

And this time I got to use my scarf. To cover up my behind in a very fashional way of like, you know, tying the scarf around my hips. And when he opened the door, I, uh, looked very professional, a bit fashionly odd, but still very professional and had a. Great smile on. Yeah. So, uh, we went in, we started the meeting, but after a while I couldn't, I, I needed to help to tell him because I thought it was quite funny and we laughed a lot and it was a good icebreaker.

But

Wilma Eriksson: that might giver moment when you're like, okay, saw this, because he can't run around and, you know, go from there because No. Then he might open the door. Yes, yes. Did a mistake or one version. So you're [00:12:00] this. Now,

Anna Hansen: so maybe, uh, the morality of the story is carry a big handbag with a lot of good stuff in it.

Yeah. Then you can be MacGyver in any situation.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. I love, I love that. And, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't think that I. Too many people know this about me, but I love a scarf. I not, you know, I don't prefer handbags. And I think it's easier, you know, to have like the keys in my pockets. Yeah, yeah. People try to learn.

It's really teach me like, like you're a woman. Maybe you, it's not that you should have a handbag, but many women like hat bags, you know, try to encourage that. But I am, I'm a horse girl, you know? I just feel that it's in the way when I should do something. So now I have like, um. Uh, how do you say, uh, backpack, right?

Yeah. Backpack. Hmm. Yeah. That is very low, uh, convenient. Mm-hmm. And in that I have my survival kit. Oh. Uh, you have like, uh, you know, something for the headache. Yeah. Uh, if, uh, yeah. Umbrella. Yeah. Extra charger. [00:13:00] You know, maybe something sweet. Yeah. So, you know, the, the blood sugar is the blood sugar is, yeah. Uh, yeah.

On call for, but now I will definitely add a scarf. A scarf. Yes. You never know when that's gonna happen to you.

Anna Hansen: Definitely. Okay.

Wilma Eriksson: That's a good

Anna Hansen: thing. But how, how did the meeting go? Well, uh, it was a good meeting and they are customers today. Yeah. So it went really, really well.

Wilma Eriksson: Great. Great story. Yes, great story. Can you laugh about that? Still you and that CEO or whatever has done. Yeah. He's actually

Anna Hansen: not at the company anymore, so, but I believe that if I met him we would probably laugh at it again.

Wilma Eriksson: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. But thank you so much for sharing and I could really understand that it was a bit of an embarrassed moment, but I yet very inspiring that MacGyver moved.

Brave. Yes.

Okay. Trying to move on. Be more serious here. And now we're gonna dig deep into, uh, [00:14:00] uh, obvious shared passion and shared topic. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We are gonna talk about one more tool for customer satisfaction. Mm-hmm. Growth and profitability. Mm-hmm. And I found this, uh, very interesting that you see it from this.

Kind of at this point of view with your background seeing pricing as I would, I would, uh, I would say shared win. Yes. Because I could feel sometimes when the, when the customer ask us about the price, they sometimes says, uh, you shouldn't. Charge us more, which I felt is a little bit weird. Uh, but they could also say it's important for us that you are, are satisfied too.

Mm-hmm. Because in they want a long time partner Yeah. For their collaboration. Yeah. So that is just from my point of view. But I'm of course very curious why you chose this kind of label to our topic today,

Anna Hansen: Anna. Exactly. Um, tell you one more story. Um. When we started to understand that [00:15:00] price could be one more tool, uh, I started to to, uh, get in contact with different, uh, price consultants just to learn a bit more.

And when they asked me, how do you work with pricing today? I was, uh, uh, I was very proud and I said, well, we have a price indexation in our contracts. So we are working very well with pricing today. Thank you very much. Uh, but I soon realized that pricing is so much more than just increases your, your prices on, on the products that, or services that you offer.

Um, I. I'd say that pricing today is of course to understand your product and what value it creates for for customers and what value it creates for different kinds of customers. I mean, the different segments that you have, and to try to [00:16:00] differentiate on price, differentiate if you can the product, but also differentiate the price because if we can.

Uh, find the value for the different segments and also price it accordingly. We will get more satisfied customers who feel that they actually pay for the value that they get and that value I. Might not be the same value as another customer because they are different in their needs. For example.

Wilma Eriksson: Oh yeah.

I'm just nodding here because I'm really, I was, uh, a little bit laughing on the inside when you thought you were working with it due to the price indexation. And what we have discovered is, um. A little bit of a story as well. I mean, we're in the story mode, right? So just in brief. So, uh, for many years ago, uh, I sold the ERP system and then I realized that if you were asking something about accounting and accounting should be like [00:17:00] the language of business, it's right, but it's yes true because it's legacy is a legacy legislation to it.

Uh, then no one know, no one had. Control of it. But I also sold to entrepreneurs. And being an entrepreneur myself, I could really see that I have, uh, too little of knowing I should know more about our, so no one knew really how their accounting and what their, the language of their business were telling at the moment.

So it's a super sensitive question. So typically when we onboard a customer, uh, my, uh, much more experienced colleague, they said. This lucky day, it shows us now, because they were almost going bankruptcy because the, all the numbers were so lagging. So they didn't know. They didn't know. Uh, and then I start, uh, uh, selling CM.

Mm-hmm. And I thought it was just made, made reason. You know, you could just ask them what's. Your ICP, what's your ideal customer profile? Like how should we set up this serum for you and how can we help you grow your business? I thought it's a reasonable question. It wasn't. It was super rude. It was super rude because no one knew.

Right. Exactly. Very [00:18:00]

Anna Hansen: provocative because

Wilma Eriksson: no one could answer it. No. Uh, and now it's actually the same thing with pricing. So I'm like, hi, who owns pricing? And everyone is like pointing fingers depending on which company. And I'm like, okay, how do you work? With your pricing as a strategy? Uh, and I don't really get any answers.

And a friend of me, he challenged me a bit and he said, uh, well, I think the management, uh, the management team, they believe they have a pricing strategy, but it's not sure that the sales rep follows it and. It's not even sure that they do have a pricing strategy. Exactly. Because you, I mean, you think you do, but you don't.

So, so therefore, I feel it's so very one simple of you at Lyme to share this with us. That you like reached out to Cais and then you realize, okay, we get one more too. Yeah,

Anna Hansen: yeah, absolutely. And what you're saying is very true. I mean, of course we, we. Um, historically have worked with price, but not as a strategic tool.

[00:19:00] And I'd say for us now pricing is. It's, uh, a bit of a broader, uh, area. So we say that it's pricing and that is of course, you know, packaging and, and pricing, but also a bit of competitor analysis and, and so on. It's, uh, offering, it's the process of making it very easy for, for our customers to buy. And since we sell, uh, we have high touch selling and almost all our, um.

Um, business units. It's also about making it easier for our account executives to sell. Uh, and the last part is the billing part to, to secure the revenue and do it hassle-free, both for our customers and for, for, uh, us at Lyme with so little administration, uh, that we can. So it's, it's a, a quite broad [00:20:00] perspective.

Uh. I'd say that one of the challenges I believe going forward will be, you know, that there are fussy boundaries, uh, where when it comes to, um, what is sales enablement or what is actually something in, in sales and what is pricing and so on. But I believe just having this up, uh, on the table, we can at least start.

To discuss it.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, I agree. And it's very pedagogical. Put like the one, how you divide it and um, what, um, something I thinking a lot myself, like how you position lime also is very close with the pricing, I would feel. Have you. Discuss this, uh, at Lime and the, and the management team. And what's your take on, on the positioning together with, with the pricing, packaging and so forth?

Anna Hansen: Mm-hmm. We have, of course, uh, and I mean our [00:21:00] positioning, we, uh, we say that we are experts, we're experts in, uh, creating and in working together with our customers. To, to support their customer journeys. And we do that, uh, in the best way in specific verticals. And so, so that is one part of our PO positioning.

Uh, but also to, to see that within vertical, there are segments with different needs. And even if you are, um, a smaller, less complex company, uh, you might want to, to buy and use, uh, our software. Uh, so we want, we want to be able to, to sell, uh, to them, even though our main target group might be, uh, a bit bigger customers and so on.

So, but therefore we need to have. Uh, a pri a package and a price, right? Uh, which is [00:22:00] very easy to sell so that we get a low sales cost, uh, on that package to, to have an entry level for, for the companies who want to work with us and hopefully grow with us as well. And that is something that we are working.

Uh, much more focused on today, uh, and making it more transparent and more clear for our customers because we've always been able to, to provide that kind of packaging. But, but it hasn't been very clear for our customers. So definitely, um, working with, with price points as, as a part of positioning. That's really important and find what, what competitors you have in that space as well.

Of course. And how they're pricing as well. Of course.

Wilma Eriksson: And you, uh, thank you for sharing. And you talked a bit about have a suitable pricing for a vertical or se a company. And we, we touched upon it a little bit. Would you like to develop. Yes. And [00:23:00] maybe also share, uh, fails so maybe other companies can learn from how you should apply this kind of thinking into your pricing and packages to be, um, compatible.

And as you say, a no hustle, no hustle stop for both the AEs and the custom.

Anna Hansen: Yeah, actually, since, since we are, uh. I mean, we've, we've been, we've been selling for a long time, of course, but it's now that we have a more strategical approach, uh, to price. So maybe I need to come back to you, uh, on, uh, with the, with the good examples of what we can do with that.

But I'd say when I look at. Other companies? Uh, I mean, I'm, now, I'm looking for good examples, uh, and how we want to do it. Uh, what I see is, um, in, in the successful companies who are working with price strategically, um, I can see that, [00:24:00] uh. Firstly, it's very clear who owns pricing, as you said before that you, you never get a good answer on that question.

Uh, but the ones who do it good, uh, they know who owns pricing. Um, um. It also seems, and, and you please, uh, fill in or, or objective. You don't think this since you've made a lot of customers concerning price. But, uh, I also see that pricing and pricing decisions are made in cross-functional teams. It's not just product or it's not just sales or it's just.

Not anyone, uh, who are, who are working with pricing strategically. It's, it's cross-functional, it's product, it's sales, it's marketing, uh, in our case it's expert services. Since we, we are, we have the services part as well.

Wilma Eriksson: I could only agree with this. And when you, when you see. Companies start receiving, um, not to say pricing [00:25:00] data, but uh, a lot more pricing data.

Yeah. Becomes as always, when you are, uh, led by data, it becomes much more transparent. Yeah. Like, okay, how, how does it look like today? Mm-hmm. And to take a few examples that our customers typically quite quick, maybe a year and a year after implementing a CPQ tool, uh, because we pop. With a lot of interesting data, of course, when it come by, um, uh, in the proposal stage.

So what they typically can see is that, um, uh, we put in a lot of hours in this product or this, um, uh, what, what can you say, uh, supplier, we focus a lot of on them. How much have we actually, uh, you know, both, uh, how many proposals have we sent? I mean, that's quite easy. But, uh, what's the average deal size?

How, uh, is our margin, uh, how are we discount? How are, what sales are discounting? How is this, uh, product is sold in [00:26:00] different countries? So then you just see if you go with, if you just look at it. Are the way around. Why do we wanna have this information is because we wanna steer our company much more efficient because everything is pulled together.

We are one company, but we're specialists in different sections. There we have like the sales, the marketing, the product and so forth. So I would say. The company's having struggling with this, I would just, okay, pause. Set an owner with mandate that could work, cross-functional, and ask yourself what kinda questions do we need our answers for?

And can we have that today? Or what kind of knowledge or people do we need to, you know, just get some answers here.

Anna Hansen: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that that is, uh, a really good, uh, a really good tip and as you say to, to actually have. The data, right. Uh, I mean, uh, I got a, a lot of really interesting insights looking into our data [00:27:00] in a different way than before.

Um, but also understanding I. Why would you want a, a, um, a offering tool or a CPQ, for example? Uh, both to, to get the, the correct data in an early stage, uh, as you say, to get the numbers that you want to see, to, to see and understand is our pricing and packaging, is it working? Uh, are, are we. Are we on, on track?

But, but also to make it very transparent and clear for the customer to, to help the customer to buy. Mm. Uh, and it's, and help them to make their buying decision because, uh, they really understand. Mm. Uh, what's, what's in this, uh, proposal? What's in this quotation for me?

Wilma Eriksson: And. Uh, uh, when you're now starting to dig deeper [00:28:00] into this mm-hmm.

Um, is this something you can share? Like, I will interview customers in this vertical or in this ICP or get them, uh, is this something you can share with us or that, you know, that other successful companies have done that you try to do yourself? Mm-hmm.

Anna Hansen: Uh, what we have done, uh, which has. Been, uh, super interesting, but because it has given us a lot of information is that we've done a, a quite extensive customer survey, uh, to understand, uh, how our customers value the product.

Uh, not just existing customers, but also. Uh, potential, uh, customers and customers that, uh, have been in our pipe. But, uh, unfortunately, we, they had said, no, thank you to us,

Wilma Eriksson: right?

Anna Hansen: Mm-hmm. Um, to understand and to, to, uh, to rank the importance of the different features. Uh, and that has been. [00:29:00] Then, uh, to, to get the information from the customers and not just trust your gut feeling and your experience.

That has been really valuable for us to, to actually combine both of them. It's also been, uh, it's been a while ago, but it's also been really interesting to, to look in a bit more into our, uh, competitors and their offerings. What are they offering today and how, where are we? Compared to that. Not to let that steer us, but to understand, uh, and therefore being able to, to make better decisions on how we want to position ourselves, um, but also to involve the organization.

I think that is really important. Um, mainly in our case it's been, uh, sales and marketing. Uh, because those are the one who meet, meet the customer in the [00:30:00] sales situation. Um, those are the ones who understand, uh, where do we meet customer needs and where don't we, um, where are the obstacles for the customers to buy?

Uh, meaning where are the os obstacles for us to sell? And also, I mean, because it, it's really important that. That, uh, this, both sales and marketing are in on this journey because they are the ones who are going to use, uh, the repackaging that we do, and that affect them a lot. So we really need, uh, their buy-in and if we say that we can simplify, uh, they're, they're selling, um, and they get to give us input on that.

Uh, hopefully we will have them. Uh, with us when we do the rollout of the new pricing and packaging.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, of course you're walking the talking doing the Lyme intense, uh, in a proper way. Correct. And for [00:31:00] those that doesn't know that yet, you have a great management, uh, uh, consultancy. One maybe, uh, that is a part of Lyme, really, really can help with the change management.

And I, I, I, I'm not an expert here, but with the people in the process to really unsure. That the system is well implemented and do deliver the value. Yeah. That customer would want it when they implement. Yeah. Did they put it in a, some somewhat cor correct way, or would you like to add something about slim intense?

Anna Hansen: No, no, that's true. I mean, the, the management consultants that we have, they're experts in behavioral change and uh, and. I mean, of course we, we, uh, use their services for our customers that, uh, want support in the behavioral change. But of course, there were real, I mean, they both support, uh, US internally, but we've also learned a lot about, uh, how to drive change, uh, which is, uh, I mean that's, that's, that's what, uh, the pricing strategy is [00:32:00] about as well.

It's, it's about driving change in a good way.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. Since I've followed you for so many years, I would say that, uh, I assume this is just natural for you guys to do. Uh, so it's not like trying to trick the customer in, it's just the opposite around that you are so secure with your delivery and that, uh, what I feel is very, very, I mean, I don't know why doesn't.

All companies do like that. In, in the, the thing that you have that I'm so impressed about is that you have the three months guarantee. Yes. So if the customer isn't satisfied of the three months implementation, then they receive everything back that they paid. Uh, this is correct, right?

Anna Hansen: Yeah, it's totally correct.

The 100% satisfaction guarantee, and it's about, uh, two things I'd say. One is that it, it gives the signals of that we are so secure and that we can help our customers to succeed [00:33:00] with their CRM software, uh, so that they can rely on us. Um, when I started the CRM business, uh, there was a common saying that 50% of all CRM projects fail.

Wilma Eriksson: Right. I recall that. So this is

Anna Hansen: like, uh, the, I, I don't know if it's still true. Uh, I hope not. Ours don't. But, um, when I look into, uh, this is like an answer for that, but also of course, that we want to. We want to be a very serious partner to our customers, and we want them to be, to be satisfied with our products and that they see that they will get the business impact that they want from the product.

So it, it feels really natural for us to do this. Yeah. But I also know that we are the only one doing it. Yeah. So it's, it's of course something that is, uh, a unique selling point for us as well.

Wilma Eriksson: Do you have any other [00:34:00] similar stuff? That, you know, works really well for you today, uh, in the both upsell, uh, situations, but also of course to acquire new customers similar to this one that you could, I mean.

Advise people at least try out at least as if, could we do this a hundred percent success guarantee or why couldn't we and so forth.

Anna Hansen: I, I believe it's a lot in the positioning. Uh, and I know that, uh, a lot of companies today are working with or want to work with verticalization, uh, but actually working with.

Uh, industries or segments of customers where you can be the expert. Um, because that is where we can, we can go in and really show the value that we can provide, uh, in the highly competitive. Um, market that we're working in. I mean, CRM market, we have a lot of competitors, of course. [00:35:00] Um, but we can also show that we can be really, or we are experts on what we do.

Um, so that is, of course, it's not a, you know, it's not, not a, a hack, but it's definitely, uh, uh, a success factor. For us,

Wilma Eriksson: I would say it is, I would say it is that it is a hack, but it's, um, I mean all SaaS companies strive to to work towards this of course, but it's not always that easy. Uh, but you have done it in a very brilliant.

Way I've heard it for so many years and, uh, uh, you know, that I used to work with Matt at Get Accept and he was so proud that you worked at this, at Lime. You know how that fostered them at get, accept and then moving forward when, uh, I mean I've been one of the, uh, co-founders to this VQ company. Uh, when we talk with VCs or they approach us, uh, even though we are still bootstrapped, they always ask, uh, what is your number one ICP?

And we're like. We [00:36:00] are moving towards that. Yeah. So it could be a, or it is a very efficient way and you have managed to do that really well. But,

Anna Hansen: but I'd also say that, um, it's also important, uh, because I mean, we can focus outbound and we can focus a lot of our energy and so on, on our ec, ICPs or our verticals.

But of course, uh, having a brand will mean that other customers will come to us inbound as well, which are outside of those, those verticals. And luckily enough, we have a product that will work for them as well. So being able to do, to do both, but the focused outbound. Uh, on, on verticals, but not to, to say no to everything else.

Uh, I'd say, um, a little bit of both. Yeah, a little

Wilma Eriksson: bit of both, but it's also a way to be efficient as always. Yeah. But to be efficient, you know, in your outreach, but also being able to be [00:37:00] efficient when the, when you have those Yeah. MQs, yes. The sign of the leads that approaches to you and are interested to being able to handle them in efficient point too.

Yeah. Super interesting. Uh, we have talked, uh, quite a lot about how successful companies work with this additional tool and what you're striving for and the progress to be made at, um, uh, moving forward. Uh, we have talked quite a bit about, uh, the customer perspective. Why is this important? But if we could just dig a little bit into the customer point of view.

Why is it so important for them, for us having the right price, if we could like summarize it and your biggest key takeaways since I know you're such a super expert in customer satisfac.

Anna Hansen: I'd say it's a lot about, uh, transparency. I. Uh, and make things clear. And now we, if we are on the, like the pricing part to, to be able to be very clear so the [00:38:00] customer knows what to expect when they buy something from us.

Uh, because I mean, usually if a customer is not happy, it's because you have expectation clashes. Uh, that the customer expected, uh, something else than what you delivered and doing complex sales and complex software or complex, but software implementation where you actually can, um, can do. Uh, customer customizations.

Uh, there's always the risk for having different expectations. So clarify the expectations with, uh, the process of pricing and packaging, but also with the process of, of doing a really good offering or a really good quote and have making it really, really. Easy, uh, for the, the account executive or the sales rep, uh, to [00:39:00] make a very clear quote for the customer.

So transparency and uh, and, uh, making it clear what to expect for making it

Wilma Eriksson: easier for them to buy. Yes,

Anna Hansen: exactly.

Wilma Eriksson: Well, that is of course, very important. Everyone knows how hard it is to buy anything nowadays, and especially when it's, uh, competing market. You are trying to, okay. Is it. Is it really the same offer we're given from these two sup possible suppliers and partners and so forth?

So, of course I think it's huge responsibility, uh, to try your best, um, to try to get better and better and better in this to help the customer to understand why are we the best fit for you guys? Or maybe you should go somewhere else because we wouldn't be a great fit. And to have that, you know. Clear, uh, um, it shouldn't be hard for decision makers, and we also know numbers.

It shouldn't be hard for them to understand what we are offering them. No, exactly. Uh, [00:40:00] that's the first, uh. So, yeah, I really agree. Maybe this, uh, maybe you can't share this, but, uh, I, I ask the question, I'll see what the answer Yeah. Uh, becomes. So, uh, if you do the pricing right, the new role, if we were to have a new podcast, I hope, uh, keeping my fingers crossed, a one see it because it's a podcast from now.

What kind of, uh, what do we strive for? What can one expect in re if you work well with pricing? So now it's out there. See what the answer is? Yeah, it's

Anna Hansen: out there. I won't share any numbers, any specific numbers on this, but what can we expect? Well. That's the, that's the great thing with pricing. I mean, you can, your, your pricing strategy could focus on different things.

I mean, your pricing strategy could focus that if you want to, to go into a new market, you could have a pricing strategy to be, to be really to. Uh, below, um, the, the pricing in that [00:41:00] market to get market share, acquire market share. Uh, but it could also be to, to increase your upselling, for example. And I mean, in, in our case, it's, uh, it's a lot about, uh, of course we expect, uh.

Better revenue, more revenue, uh, but also to, to simplify, uh, the buying process or simplify the, the sales process. So hopefully that we will. Um, uh, decrease, um, the acquisition cost or the sales cost, uh, on our customers to make it easier, uh, for our account executives and our account managers. And also to simplify.

Uh, upselling, uh, actually to, to do upselling in a little bit of a different way, uh, today. Uh, but I believe, uh, that you could also, uh, probably expect, [00:42:00] uh, lower churn if you were to focus on that, uh, given that you hope will hopefully. Um, match the value that you create for customers with the price. Uh, it's also delivering on that value.

Of course, of course. But I believe, uh, churn can definitely be, be affected and as we were speaking about, uh, increased customer satisfaction, um, so we. In our case, it's both, uh, the financial, uh, part that is important of course, but also the customer satisfaction part and the coworker or employee satisfaction, uh, making it easier to to, to sell.

Wilma Eriksson: If I got the chance to talk with you in a year or two from now, uh, it should be really interesting to, to of course, uh, hear what you are. Yes. Able to share. But we know, we know since being pricing is what we live and breathe, uh, [00:43:00] just to have a owner, just to start actually working with it as a strategy.

Start measure. You will receive so much data and so interesting Intels that you can do really, really good, you know, decisions word, uh, we know that profitability, uh, increases and the growth rate increases. So we will just, uh, as always, be inspired by you guys and follow your journey this and see what numbers we can, uh, about in a year or two from now.

Absolutely. Okay. Is there something else? Mm. That we, uh, should address and that you want to share before we start wrapping up this, uh, episode today?

Anna Hansen: Maybe, um, like in the strategy to, to think of the pricing strategy or the work, uh, focused on pricing as a, a continuous work. It's not something that you do once.

Uh, of course there are, are project specific things, uh, or, or specific things that you can do in a project, [00:44:00] but actually have it as a part, uh, of your, of your, um, uh, of, of the things that you do. So, as you say, Wilma, you, you continue to follow. Uh, that data that you get and you, you add targets on that data and how are we, uh, going towards those targets and so on.

So, so that's, uh, without knowing too much, that is what I, what I really believe in this, that it's, it's not a one thing, it's something that you actually want, like a real part. Of your operations? Mm.

Wilma Eriksson: I I'm not a super expert, uh, from OX is. Yeah. And this was something she talked about a lot in the webinar that we had.

She was like, it's an ongoing work. It's an ongoing work. Yeah. And she also said increased prices, but that, that. If you are interested, you can listen into that webinar, but, uh, definitely cannot record this. Yeah, I, I actually

Anna Hansen: heard it. Yeah. [00:45:00] Okay.

Wilma Eriksson: Thank you so much, Anna, for sharing your thoughts on this. Um, it seems like a role, uh, perfect, suitable for you with this kind of eng engagement and passion.

Ah.

Anna Hansen: I hope so. Yeah, definitely.

Wilma Eriksson: Uh, I'm eager to learn. We always are. Right. And, uh, on that topic, thank you for a great segue. Who do you get most inspired by regarding this topic? That having pricing as one extra tool for, uh, customer satisfaction, growth and profitability? Hmm.

Anna Hansen: Uh. Uh, I'm always very inspired by, uh, Fort Knox and the growth journey, uh, that they have, uh, that they're on.

Uh, and I know that they're working, uh, with pricing strategies as well. So, uh, I'd say the they are an inspiration. Yeah. They, as you

Wilma Eriksson: say, have a really nice growth, uh, both in the years behind, but moving forward for sure. [00:46:00] Okay. So now I'm curious, you have mentioned a few, but what are your main challenges in your business right now and problem that you are addressing?

Anna Hansen: Um, well, let's say it's about, uh. I mean, at Lyme, we, we always need to work hard and do things right to acquire new customers and, and keep the customers that we have, but also in the market situation, uh, that that is out there right now, uh, it's, it's e we need to, you know, we need to step up, uh, even more and, and do.

Everything right. Do every step of the sales process, do do all the things that we can, uh, to help the customers make a great choice in making the choice of lime. Um, and also, uh, to, to really try to, to show the business impact that we can create to be. Uh, right [00:47:00] up there in, uh, in our customer's priorities, uh, to, to buy from us.

Either buy, um, like the first time, buy a new, uh, software from us, but also to, to, uh, buy, um, the, the different parts that you can and, and grow in our product. So I'd say it's about. Being on our toes even more than usual. Uh, and that is of course, something which is, uh, is, it's both fun, but it's also, uh, hard to be on our toes every every day.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, it really is. And thank you for sharing. And I just wanted to, to add in this dialogue, uh, people often ask out us about, I know we have a background from CRM, all founders of UX Q and, uh, we are very, very close collaboration. I mean, we are. One of your add-ons and so, so on. Always tell customers when they are, you know, when I feel that they are a [00:48:00] little bit extreme insecure, maybe they are frighten of a new IT project going south.

I say the one I always know deliver is lime. So from my point of view, I mean in this market when everything is a little less secure and little more, I don't know, scary, uh, and you really need to do those, uh. Sound choices, then going with lime in that sense is a low risk. So that is just my, to the, to this conversation because I know it's true.

Anna Hansen: Ha. I'm really happy to to hear that. Yeah, and I mean, we have, uh, some common customers that are, are really getting the business impact that they were looking for. Uh, when they started with we, both, you and us, so, yeah.

Wilma Eriksson: And that's the only thing that is important. Yes. It's, it's, it's, and who would you, yourself maybe, uh, like to listen to in fail and grow?

Me asking tricky question about pricing [00:49:00] and profitability.

Anna Hansen: Who would that be? Who would that be? Since I said, uh, that I admire the growth journey of Fort Knox? Yeah. Maybe, uh, one of the persons within, uh, Fort Knox that are actually working, uh, working with the pricing strategy. I'll

Wilma Eriksson: definitely, uh, do my, uh, sales hump.

Mm-hmm. Take my sales hand. Uh, what do you say? Not, uh, not, you know, try to dig someone up. Try to encourage them to go my way. So I'll definitely reach out to someone or many, many people at Fox, uh, see who, uh, because they must have a clear owner, right? Exactly. Mm-hmm. Uh, and despite, uh, nerding down about pricing, uh, laughing to get fuck up, that you obviously did a very smooth save up.

Uh. Imagine us being on a sunny, sunny day, maybe a warm beach where I would prefer to be, I don't know about you, [00:50:00] but we have that, we have one capina and we have one moto that we are sharing. Oh, nice. And this song comes up and you just work song. Would you like to celebrate life with?

Anna Hansen: It's actually right now it's, it's actually, uh, I'd say.

Uh, one song that is, uh, on repeat, uh, in my car when I drive to work. It's, uh, from Beyonce's, uh, country album, uh, the new, her newest album, and it's Texas Holden. Yeah, I think it's, uh, I, I mean, I'm a country girl. I like to listen to country as well. Uh, but I think she's doing it so good. Uh, I couldn't agree in that song.

So Texas hold them. It, it has a good, uh, good vibe as well as, you know, we might do some dancing as well.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, well, why not? Why not? Well, thank you so much for sharing your true expertise about pricing, Anna, and thank you for sharing and uh, cheers. Have a great weekend. [00:51:00] Yes,

Anna Hansen: cheers. You too. Thank you for having me, Wilma.

Take care. Thank you. Bye. This ain't Texas. Ain't no hold cards. Down, down, down, down. So Lexus and throw your keys up. Hey, stick around. Round, round, round. Stick around and now be damned if I can't slow dance with you. Come close on me, honey. Real live a real live Hold down. Don't be a bitch. Come take it to the floor now.

Woo.

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