Accelerating Growth with Powerful OKRs 🚀, Sophie Hedestad Noxit

Wilma Eriksson: [00:00:00] Hi there you have tuned Into Fail and Grow. It's an opic. There is to say operational excellent podcast show. So fail and grow is for you who wanna increase your revenue and become more profitable. I mean, who doesn't? This is actually season seven and you, the one who are listening, are fortunate enough to learn and laugh and listen to world class leaders within operational excellence who are not just full of knowledge.

But also humble enough to share their fuckups and what they learned from it. And your host is I, one of the co-founders and the CEO of VQ configure price quote. So what we do that is we, uh, increases the user adoption of your CRM. We take away all unnecessary spreadsheet where you do your pricing and quoting as of today, and we ensure.

That is an error free process, and that will lead to, of course, an increased revenue and profitability. Okay. Um,

Sophie: today's [00:01:00] episode of Fail and Grow, uh, I have the true pleasure to have another female entrepreneur and founder as the guest. She has been with Meltwater for almost a decade. Very, very successfully managed very quickly and early in her career to be one of the managing directors at Meltwater.

She led them, the Swedish. UBI team after having been one of the top sales representative globally at Meltwater. And then she moved on being the CMO at Navigate and learned by real life experience of the Elk R process and how could really beneficial teams working towards the same goal. And then Sophia, you found it.

I hope I say pronounce it correct now. And you have been that successful in this. Terrible market if you ask me. So now you're actually doing a VC round to accelerate growth even further and expanding to North America. Sophia De, it's a true pleasure having you here. Warmly welcome. Thank you [00:02:00] so much, Wilma.

Good meeting you. And with your own words, what do you do? Who are you? What do knock it? Do

Wilma Eriksson: I think you made a good introduction. It was nice. So I don't need to tell you about myself again, but yeah, I'll be working within sauce. Since 2011 in commercial roles, as you mentioned, sales and marketing. And, um, I founded XI in 2023 together with Robert and Matilda.

And, um, it was after, uh, experience a lot of headache and problems myself with cascading goals in an organization. And I researched a lot of platforms out there and I didn't think anyone was. Enough and, uh, user friendly enough for me to implement it in the organization I was at back then in, at Navigate.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I decided to, uh, start my own company, uh, Xi and you pronounce it the right way and OXI tool. Yeah.

Sophie: And o course, those who aren't that, [00:03:00] uh. Maybe haven't learned about it that much. You and I have. Uh, what is it, what does it stand for and who is it for?

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, so it stands for Objectives and Key Results, and it's actually is famous from building Google's goal setting framework.

So originally he was this man called, uh, Andrew Groove, Andy Groove that worked at Intel in the seventies. So it's a very, very old framework. Uh, he had an intern called John Doer and John Doer. Actually invested in Google really early on and who was implementing OKRs within Google. And that's where the framework is really, really famous from.

And what is nice with a method or a framework is that it actually helps you, it actually guides you when you have questions like how, what? What should my rhythm be? What kind of sermons or myth things should I have? So it's nice because otherwise you kind of need to invent all of this yourself, and it's a super, super [00:04:00] easy framework.

So it's really similar to, to a lot of other frameworks, uh, like rocks and must win battles that you might heard about as well. So it's a framework or method for rolling out or cascading goals throughout an organization. Uh, so everywhere one works in there. Right, same direction. So the problem today is often that the manager, together with the employee set kind of yearly goals if you're not in sales.

Because in sales it's really clear that you should sell, uh, an amount every month, right? But when you're in hr, when you're in finance, when you're in marketing, it could bill, uh, not as clear as when you're in sales. So, um, here you get the whole organization to work towards the shared goals. That's the The method, right?

And yeah, to break it down for everyone. And it's also very nice, right? Because all employees wants to know what's expected from them to know what sure success looks like.

Sophie: And when is the [00:05:00] company, I mean from, from where in the company journey, if it's number of employees or customers or markets at wherever, from where is it, uh, beneficial to implement?

Uh, of course. And then sliding on to NOx, it's ICP. Who are you ideal for?

Wilma Eriksson: Hmm. So I think. If you talk to any startup, I guess they use kind of OKRs because it's so famous and it's widely adopted out there. So if you talk to startup with five peoples, they probably work with OKRs or something similar like that, or KPI tracking, or, yeah, they have some kind of goal setting.

But I think OKRs is good because you need to prioritize and uh, you need to kill your darlings. You cannot. Do hundred things at the same time. You need to focus on your three objectives and like one to three key results you want to achieve. So I think it helps you focus either if you're five employees or 5,000 employees.

It, it should be simple, right? But I don't think you need to [00:06:00] make a big process out of it when you're five people, but when you're approaching like 15 to 20 people and you're leading the company, I think it's quite nice to cascade and create ownership in the organization. So I think from 15 people, I think you should get some structure around it, and I think it could be beneficial to have kind of a platform and not work in spreadsheets and PowerPoint slides that most executive.

Is doing their goal setting in. So we don't need to talk about OKRs. It's more about cascading strategy and cascading goals because most organization have some kind of strategy. If you're bigger, you might have this three year business plan. So. O OKRs would build to break this down in clear operational goals for the year or for the quarter based on the strategy.

And that's why some say strategy execution.

Sophie: Hmm. Right, right. And, uh, no, it's, uh, ICP say from 15 employees, um, upwards. Or do you have a special sweet spot?

Wilma Eriksson: [00:07:00] Yes, we started to sell the platform, uh, 12 months ago. Um, and uh, I mean we're still finding our IP in a way because we have customers that's 15 employees and we have a customer that is 10,000 employees.

So it's a widespread, right. Yeah. And we don't have a certain in industry because all industries work with them. Goal setting. Uh, but I think, uh, our ICP would be like in the range of 50 to 500 employees and we talk to the CO. Um, and we have seen that slightly more traditional industries, um, like processes a lot more, uh, than maybe, you know, scale up, uh, like to do it a lot themselves.

So I think, uh, if you kind of, uh, want. Process to stick and uh, yeah. Uh, we've been working quite nicely with. More traditional companies as well.

Sophie: Mm-hmm. Nice. I think that AC actually is a wrong assumption. Many people have that, uh, [00:08:00] that traditional industries we that are from SaaS that believe that we are so, the cool kids and so forth, uh, that we are adopting to that kind of change in a innovative way.

I would say maybe we aren't that much, maybe that, uh, self. Little bit wrongly because you can really see that a traditional, they have to have processes because have to have even more, uh, complex businesses. Of course, it's a sidetrack, but that is just something I'm sometimes, you know, reflecting upon.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think, uh, I agree with you that, uh, TE Tech and SaaS, uh, could sound really cool, but sometimes really not. Uh, yeah, if I have a lot of like courses with dog and industry than Nia, uh, without, and, uh, you can see that, uh, they, uh, like more traditional companies actually take a lot more time to reflect, um, go on a course.

It's quite rare that. Scale ups and cool tech [00:09:00] companies come to this kind of courses. So I can see that, you know, more traditional companies that have been around for some time and has more employees are, um, a bit more reflecting. Want the process to be right and take the time to formulate the great goals and take time to set the rhythm.

Uh, what is it? Um, uh, like, uh. I'm searching for a word here, like TU mode. Patience. Patience, patience. Yeah. Yeah, like, like consistency maybe also. Yeah. Consistency. Patience. Taking the time to get it right.

Sophie: Right, right, right. Interesting. Okay, so we're gonna obviously dip down into this a little bit later, but now I'm very curious if we were to meet up eel, we have, we're lucky to do that sometimes.

Yeah. Events and similar female founder stuff and and so forth, we have to shape up on that bone. But, uh, when we meet up next time and it's an after work, what do I pour in [00:10:00] your glass? And you think that this is really a great drink.

Wilma Eriksson: I love margaritas. Oh,

Sophie: big as well. Quite rarely. Uh, ask for drink, I would say.

Mm-hmm. But it's a beautiful is special Mars. Yes. Plain simple. Margarita.

Wilma Eriksson: You know, I think they are better served in some other country than Sweden because I agree with you. It's not that often. I get a margarita in Sweden. No, but I've been drinking like flatter. What is flatter? EL flour. El flour, yeah, some.

It was really nice. Um, the. I don't take the spicy marri, but it's, it's really sour and bitter in a way. Right. So sour, bitter, and swt and I like that.

Sophie: Sounds great. I love that too. Okay, thank you so much. And, uh, now let's see here. What do you wanna share with us today about your funness work related? Fuck up.

Wilma Eriksson: Uh, so when we started Xi [00:11:00] in the beginning, um, because I haven't founded any other source company, this is my first one and probably maybe the last as well, who knows? I can support

Sophie: you on that. But yeah, let's see what the future takes us. Yeah,

Wilma Eriksson: let's what the future brings. No, but, um, then of course it's a lot of, uh, things that doesn't work in the platform.

So when we onboarded our first customer, I was on this. In this workshop with 50 employees and I was attending different rooms, and then the, uh, platform suddenly didn't work as it should. So that was, uh, kind of a fuck up. Right? So you needed to handle a situation where you were onboarding one of your first customers in this huge workshop and walking around there.

So I was, and I was, uh, calling. Yeah, once, uh, a couple of times during that session. So I think, uh, [00:12:00] as a company that that is, uh, I mean a fuck up and, and something,

Sophie: the stress level, stress, uh, increased rapidly.

Wilma Eriksson: It's not nice that you want everything to build perfect. Um, nothing is perfect and it didn't. It wasn't perfect that time.

Sophie: We had a small pre-shot that we, that we said, it's like we don't record this one, even though it would be called like the juice stuff. So maybe the audience would prefer to listen to that one. Yeah. But then we save it for another day. Yeah. But to run a company, or by all means to raise children, it's like nothing is going as planned.

It's impossible to keep it perfect. Yeah. Uh, you just have to, uh, go into survival mode. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. It's a good, uh, Swedish expression, you know, Teflon like, or Goose, you just let everything gets off your shoulder and you just move on. You need to kind of, uh, really embrace that and, mm-hmm.

Yeah.[00:13:00]

Sophie: So now it's time for what we already start talking a little bit about, about today's topic. We are gonna talk about operational excellence from an uh, point of view where the importance of goal setting, uh, with O Cars as a method. So you have already little bit described what. What it stands for and what it is.

But when you, back at the time at mitigate, when you start implemented this, what was it that you more or less fell so much in love with, that you actually started your own company about OKRs?

Wilma Eriksson: I maybe did not fall in love with. And I think it was more like the headache, right? So the headache I wanted to solve, I felt like I had a solution to the headache.

So I didn't fall in love with OKRs, and I'm not in love with OKRs even today, but maybe lesser. Yeah, exactly. Uh. But I was, uh, very excited about solving the problem and it was [00:14:00] the problem of cascading goals in an organization and, uh, the solution to kind of create transparency, alignment, get the communication and the rhythm, right?

So I was more. Passionate about the problem and the solution rather than the OKR framework.

Sophie: Right. And if you were to dig deeper into the pain, uh, uh, obviously when you meet prospects and customers today before implementing xi of course, but what kind of pain, uh, do the organization typically see when oak cars really could help out?

Wilma Eriksson: Hmm. So just an example, I had, uh, one of our, my customers was doing, she, she is a CO, it's about a hundred employees in this company. Mm-hmm. And she did the goal setting in spreadsheets and PowerPoint slides. So every January when they went to the yearly kickoff where they launched their goals, um, she had about 10.

[00:15:00] Slides that she showed the company. And that slide deck grew into 83 slides and it, uh, it became six versions of this PowerPoint slide deck also. So it created a lot of confusion, like, what version should we work with now? Is it this one or that one? Right? And she could really sense that the couldn't.

Understand their connection to the overarching goals, and the team leaders couldn't follow up on the goals. Uh, so that was the pain, right? So they were doing it in spreadsheet and PowerPoint. Mm. It was really disconnected for the rest of the organization and what they were working on. So. Then they implemented, no, it, and they got a much better way of working with goals.

So they set their overarching goals and which what? What is nice with no, it is that you assign owners and here management teams have a great opportunity. Then if you do it outside, no it you should cascade [00:16:00] goals to the rest of the organization. Because I experienced that a lot of management teams sit and own the goals by themselves.

But they have so much to do, so it's better if they actually assign someone else in the organization. If let's say you are a CRO and you have a, a sales leader in your team, that is great, then you could instantly, um, assign a goal to that person, and it's up to that person to break it down, to communicate and inform everyone how, how you're doing towards that.

Goal or OKR. Um, so I think, uh, management team in general could be better at assigning other people in the organization. What I can see is that OKRs often become like this PowerPoint spreadsheet in the management team, and they get no power, no execution power towards the goals because they own it and they have so little time.

They need to have time on, like having this helicopter overview and. [00:17:00] I think they would be better off assigning it to the next level of leaders in the organization.

Sophie: That is a very interesting advice. And when, uh, I worked at getup when we implemented our course, uh, and that must have been like seven years ago or something like that.

So I think it was. I don't know, fairly early, maybe in the Nordics or in the Sweden, Swedish market. Uh, and they were very transparent with said like, it'll take some time for us to find our pace here. Uh, what I, as an, uh, employee back then found a little bit tricky was to have, I had my KPIs and that I had my cars.

Would you please bring your perspective on how to align that? The not having. Yeah, I have my KPIs over here, uh, and then I have my o course over here and, or is that just completely wrong? So no, no shadow sent over. Get accept because I think we managed very well and I really, uh, liked o course, but it was a little bit challenging the beginning at least.

[00:18:00] Hmm.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. I think you can think about the KPIs as like slightly business as usual or health metrics. So they should build at a certain level in order for you to perform. So like if you're in sales. It would build, uh, pickups, picking up the phone outreach. It would build booking meetings, conducting meetings, sending out offers, and then sales of course, in the end, right?

Um, and if some of these metrics is read for a very long time, you might wanna lift it towards the OKRs and highlight it as a focus area because that is how they work together. Really good. So, KPIs. Should be measured probably hourly, daily, weekly, like on a much lower level. While the OKRs is more kind of transformational goals and you shouldn't get everything into the OKRs.

It should be, this needs to happen. And if you get everything into OKRs, then nothing will happen, probably because it's too much. So [00:19:00] that's, it's a way to prioritize what you should focus on. So if you work with business as usual. A hundred percent of your time, can you squeeze in some transformational work?

Like even if you are a sales rep, like could you spend two hours each Friday working on more kind of transformational task, optimizing things that you're doing every week? Very uh, repeatedly. So I think depend like what role you are in is also playing a role, right? Because in the management team, you're a very transformational focus and you should probably spend a lot more of your, your time thinking about executing on what kind of company you will build in five, seven years.

While for your sales rep, you need to. Cover your sales quota here and now. And I think that is a problem with O QRSs as well. There is a disconnect 'cause the management team work in, uh, another horri time horizon than the sales rep [00:20:00] and they have difficulties understanding each other like the sales rep.

It's maybe like, oh, what kind of fluffy strategies that, that is not applicable to my daily work. While the management theme thinks like, oh, the, the sales rep does not change the ways of working. Like they're doing everything manually. And yeah, AI is here now and everyone should be able to optimize a lot of their daily tasks.

Why are they not doing that? Or, you know, there's a disconnect. Um. I think we need to get better in understanding each other. So I think maybe the management team could, uh, understand the business as usual and maybe the one that works a lot in the bread, bread and butter time horizon here and now with existing customer also need to challenge themselves to build bit more transformational because what I experienced when I have been in more transformational roles, or like more strategy roles, has been that.

There is no time, there is [00:21:00] never no time for any change, you know, like, oh, I need to call customers, and then the days up, so we don't have any time to do anything new. Um, yeah, so I think there is a disconnect there. Um, and I think most leaders, um, the people working, uh, non strategically could recognize themselves in this.

Explanation. I don't know if you agree with that much.

Sophie: Yeah, I do. Uh, I do. And I, I'm also like, uh, a little bit thinking of the people I'm working with now, but also earlier if it's like a personal trait. I see some people not, not the other people that not striving to get better. That is not what I attempt to say here.

It's more like, it feels like some people have, some people have in their nature the strive to do things differently, easier, better, whatever you wanna call it. And some people are just so busy doing the things. Had already been assigned. Um, I don't know. Uh, I don't know if that is the case, uh, [00:22:00] or,

Wilma Eriksson: but I've been there myself.

You know, when I started at Meltwater as a sales consultant in 2011, I was always so busy making more calls, calls, right? Uh, mailing more customers, and then, you know, everything that was transformational or changing ways of working, and. Becoming more efficient. So I, I do understand both sides because I've been, been on both sides.

Mm-hmm. Um, and there's not a easy solution to it, but I think just both, uh, needs to be aware, uh, of that you need to spend time on When, come back to your question about KPIs. Um, transformational goals, that there needs to build a balance and they need to coexist.

Sophie: Mm. Yeah, definitely. And what is the take on, uh, um, I don't know if this is yet true, but that Ocar could help with more alignment between different departments.

Uh, how do you, could Ocar help with that? Or how, what's your [00:23:00] perspective?

Wilma Eriksson: The overarching goals could help a little bit with that. So instead of writing. Like an objective, we should launch this new functionality. Maybe it could be written like, we will get our first customer on this product because then marketing could write their objectives towards this goal.

And product can write their objectives towards the goal. Tech can do the same. Sales can do the same. So I think how it's formulated on the top right? Mm-hmm. Uh, and then of course they will have some, uh, some overlapping as well. So if you're really big. Um, it could be complex, but then you come into kind of project management who does what until when and when, when, when we launch it and, and you need to sync it and so on.

Um, so the, the OQR should help with that. I think a pitfall that you should avoid is to have too many dependencies though, because I've been in, in customer meetings where everyone had like a list of 20 items they needed from tech before they could start working on their [00:24:00] goals. So I think, um, I think also in, in your team, you need to kind of, um, uh, brainstorm what kind of problems you have, what kind of change you would like to do, um, and you should be able to actually work independently towards these goals as well.

So there is a balance. So if you have a lot of dependencies, maybe you need some, um. Uh, facilitation because if all departments have 20 dependencies on tech, they might be able to solve one. At the most in maybe a quarter. So it needs to be facilitated from the management team.

Sophie: Right. And you talked a little bit earlier about the pace.

Could you talk, uh, could you describe a little bit one year with O Cars, how the pace looks? Like if you, if you typically run it on, on a [00:25:00] year or otherwise, guide me.

Wilma Eriksson: Mm. So the rhythm, I often talk about the rhythm. Oh, the rhythm. Sorry. Yeah, no, no. Wor worries. So I think. A good rhythm that works for most companies is, uh, on the company level, you would have yearly OKRs, and on the team level you would have quarterly OKRs, so you could have a mixed rhythm, and if you're a very small company, you could have a quarterly rhythm on company OKRs as well.

Okay. But if you're a large company, it could take too much of your time because what you want to do is like plan and evaluate. Uh, so it could be, uh, like too much ti time spent on planning and evaluating if you have a quarterly rhythm and above. 70 people, then it could build too much sinks needed.

Mm-hmm. So then it could be better to have like a yearly. Yeah, that's my recommendation. [00:26:00] Yearly OKRs on company level, quarterly OKRs on team level. So you would typically. Work slightly different. So the management team take cares of the company OKRs and you would set them, uh, in the best worlds in December and communicate them December before you go Christmas.

I. These are the yearly company or OKRs. And if it's, I mean, in the perfect world, the teams would then set their goals beginning of January to the quarter. But that's where it gets complicated, right? Because a company's not that learn and efficient that you get one will of planning and then you start executing.

Uh, that's where it fails, right? Because it's so many chefs cooking the soup. But I think if you have a strong leader like C-O-C-O-O, shift Strategy Officer hr, like someone strong facilitating this process, [00:27:00] then it could be quite successful. I work with one HR leader in Paris that is, uh, so good in facilitating this process.

So, uh, I think that's a really strong ambassador. Like we have this. Will to do the company o qrs. Then he goes out in the team, does the same for one wic, and then it's set. And then they start working and executing. Then it's the quarterly business review. Then they follow up on the company level. All teams are presenting, and then they move into the new cycle the next quarter.

Mm. And then he does the same. But he is really, I mean, his, uh, his fantastic doer in that sense. And it's rare that companies get the rhythm right. But I think if you have a software like xi, it would definitely helps you with the rhythm because you would. Yet kind of notification when it's time to plan, when deadline passed, when you need to start working in certain way.

So I think the rhythm is probably [00:28:00] where companies struggle the most.

Sophie: Interesting. Very interesting. And talking about pitfalls, uh, we have, uh, touched upon a couple, but, um, moving on to even, even more pitfall, worse pitfall and worse.

Wilma Eriksson: So the, I said, but I think also formulating. Key results. So when you work with OKRs, you have the objective and that's the direction you are heading.

The key results should be measurable. And then you have the activities or the key initiatives. So there's three components of OKRs and I think people in general depend, like it's, um, it's not depending on anything. Like I think people in general is really bad. They're really bad in. Committing to a key result.

Mm-hmm. So, because you often have a hypothesis, right? So if we launch this feature, you never sold this feature before. If you're a SaaS company, [00:29:00] you're developing a feature. Then the CRO, let's say, should commit to a sales goal. Like we're gonna sell 10 million of this feature. It's really stressful to commit to that number, right?

Because you never sold this functionality ever before. You have probably not had the time to do the proper research on the market and how much you will be able to sell it. There's no time for that. So then you need to take a bet, like, yeah, let's put in 10 million. But, uh, what comes really easy for us is the activities.

We're gonna reach out to this list. We're gonna email five, 5,000 clients about this feature. So the activities comes really natural for us. So that's, uh, what most company does. Like they have the objective, which would be the area or theme of the goal. Hmm. So it could be like customer success, uh, but maybe you wanna describe what do you want to achieve with customer success?[00:30:00]

Yeah. We wanna launch this functionality and sell this functionality towards these customers before entering the new year or whatever you wanna. Now I'm, I'm talking, but, but yeah. And coming back to the key results, sorry. Yeah. So the key results, uh, like all the activities, what's the effect you're after?

You're after sales, so then you need to com, uh, commit to. Of a R or whatever it could be. And that's really difficult for people. So I think that's a pitfall to commit to a number, right? Where you are allowed to elaborate on the numbers so it's not someone else that says you gotta sell. It is almost easier.

Someone else come to you and say, you're gonna sell 10, 10 million of this picture. It's easier than committing to it to yourself. And there, I think, yeah, people struggle a lot. Committing to numbers,

Sophie: like the overall like responsibility. Uh, over for it. Yeah. Sorry, you were saying lagging? Mm-hmm.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah.

Revenue is a [00:31:00] lagging indicator, right? A lot of things happen. Yeah. And you get a revenue number, but then it's easier to commit to loading indicators. And loading indicators Could be like gonna send this offer to a hundred customers and then you measure a hundred. So it's a lot more Izzy, do you understand what I'm mean?

It's, yeah. That's kind of, okay, if I put, um, uh, sweat tears and hard work into this, I'm gonna achieve it, right? I'm gonna email a hundred customers until I have a hundred, and then I, yeah, got the goal. And I think junior people. Could actually do the loading indicators a lot easier than the lagging one because lagging one is the effect your after, which is sales.

And then you need maybe some kind of experience or have done it before to be able to understand the how. While loading indicators could be very good for junior employees. So another example could be like publish. 10 blog posts that [00:32:00] follows the content plan and that they are search engine optimized, let's say, then they know what to do, right?

They're gonna post 10 blog posts and they should follow the content plan and it should be search engine optimized. So it gives them a lot of guidance. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, goals, uh, could also be there. Really difficult to understand. If it's like a revenue number and you're a junior and you have never done it before, then it can create a lot of stress.

Mm-hmm. So that's why you should have a mix of loading and lagging. Mm-hmm.

Sophie: Interesting. Very interesting. I could really see that. Uh, I mean, uh, a leading one is more. Uh, I wouldn't say maybe less risk or it's more hands, it's action oriented, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's actually much easier to understand and to commit to than to just have a number to reach.

I mean, how could I, it's like running a company. That's why I am almost not laughing. It's like you're running [00:33:00] it. You have never done it before. You haven't. You can also. Always see that you could done a more research or learn more about the in category, whatever, you know, but you just have to take a bet.

And I could really see how that approaches more senior people, because then you can at least have some confident in other things that you had done earlier. But if you have a leading, uh, KPI or a car, then it's more, okay, this is what I should do and I. Could control myself that I actually gonna do. It's so there's also a perspective, I believe.

Yeah. Okay. That is one. Beautiful. Do we have any, anything else that you wanna address? It's, yeah. Could help people to hear your point of view of,

Wilma Eriksson: yeah. Now it's getting really nerdy, but I talked about there'll be actives that they are more like themes and many people just enter them as films like customer success, new sales, um, products feature X, um, ai.

Like, do you understand? Like, they're more kind of themes, right? Um, but [00:34:00] uh, let's focus on the theme. Ai. What do you wanna achieve with ai? I, I ask the customer like, what do you wanna achieve with ai? And then we talk about it for some time, and then I can hear like, but you want to become more like efficient, like operational efficient operational excellence, or what, what are we offered now?

Become more efficient. Uh, so maybe we want to describe that. And then the objective could be better, like, well, or an, uh, efficient organization that leveled up our work with AI or so like, correct, like more like a mental image. Like when we get out of this year, what have we achieve with ai? Because just as a theme, it's easy.

It's more like a label. So it's easy for you to remember ai, but you don't place like any mental image. Anyone with just ai. So what do you wanna achieve within that area? Maybe. Formulate that [00:35:00] in a short, crisp way. Um, so maybe you wanna dig deeper when formulating goals. Mm-hmm. So new customers, let's say, like, what are we really after here?

Yeah. We wanna increase the sales pipeline with more enterprise companies. Maybe that is more clear to everyone than just new. Mm-hmm. Customers.

Sophie: More customers. Yeah. True. True. Okay. So the people, uh, who have now worked with Knox no. For a year or so, or companies in general working with Ogar, do you have any measurements that typical things that you can really see these companies improves with, uh, in numbers?

Wilma Eriksson: We have actually in a few companies measured this. Um, I talked to the skilling resort Tendo the other week, which is a fantastic skill, skill resort in, in Sweden, by the way. Yeah. Um, and they, uh, measured actually awareness around goals. [00:36:00] So they asked the question from one to five, like, what is your awareness about the goals?

And before no eight. Yeah. So they had 3.9. Before they started with OKRs and Oxid and they had 4.5 in less than a quarter in the same question. Oh wow. So it actually increased. 0.6. Uh, 0.6. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then we have, uh, plan, see as a customer as well. Mm-hmm. And, um, they increased their awareness. They asked the question differently, but I think they increased the awareness around the goals with, uh, 70%.

And they could also see 160% better goal achievement and Wow. They saved 200 hours, uh, in their organization. Wow.

Sophie: That is really, you should have said that when I asked could I have some bragging about Xi. Yeah. Yeah. But that's amazing really how you then align towards those goals. You understand them, you get them.

Uh, [00:37:00] mood moved away from the PowerPoint. Uh, to the action organization working towards the same goal. That's fantastic.

Wilma Eriksson: And I think with our, where like CRM systems were in 10 years because you actually had your customers in Excel sheets and spreadsheets. Yeah. And that's where we are with goals. Now. We have our goals in spreadsheets and Excel sheets, but it's still the most precious and important things we have internally.

Right. What are we about to achieve? And we have it in Excel and spreadsheets and. Yeah, it's not made for dynamic goal management.

Sophie: We're soon 15 people. I really could see that my spreadsheets are going out the window during this year. Uh, definitely. Okay. That is crazy. And yeah, and I was actually selling c.

Serum for 10, 15 years ago. And then we talked about that 15% of all the companies in Sweden had a serum. Mm-hmm. And to me, that was just crazy. Mm-hmm. Brought up in, uh, well for good or bad, brought up in SaaS, [00:38:00] uh, been selling serum for a couple of years, and then I find the statistic that like 15% of all the Swedish company has a serum.

It's like, what do all the others do? I mean, so yeah. Okay. Huge market obvious for you guys to approach and, uh, maybe the last question that I. Have from a customer point of view, why is it important that we at Vlo q, uh, implement no and work with our cars? Why is it important for them that we are working with this?

That's a really

Wilma Eriksson: good question, because that's the next step, right? But I think. When you start the company, you are really customer obsessed, right? So you wanna build the best for us. It's a SaaS product. You wanna be build the best source product there has ever been within this space, and you want the customers to love it, right?

So when you talk to customers mm-hmm. Um. You're quite customer obsessed, especially when you're starting up. You, you love your customers so much because they have taken a bet in you. They know they're quite [00:39:00] early customers of yours, so they support you and they are they probably your biggest supporters because they actually pay you for something that might not be fully.

Uh, done yet. So it's kind of, um, yeah, it's, you, you, at least for us, we've been loving our customers a lot and the, the goals is always set towards the customers, right? It's even when you have goals around, um, employee satisfaction or employee engagement, um, it's because you can see that if the employees, uh.

Are engaged, then the customers will be more happy too. So all the goals is always for the customers, right? It's never for, yeah. Some, some companies might bill for the owners', uh, pockets. I don't know. But most, uh, startups and companies out there are quite customers that, uh, obsessed. Yeah. And I think when you are not customer obsessed and think about your customers, when you set [00:40:00] your goal, uh, then you might.

Become too big and uh, yeah, I can see a lot of internal focused goals as well. So let's say just an example there, like data security, right? So we need to build more data secure. Why do you need to build more data secure? Yeah. Then it's probably goal around our customer's. Data is safe with us, right? So it's about the customers in them.

So I think companies can, that's a pitfall as well. Companies can build a lot more. Uh, external focused on setting their goals, but I think that's why we have goals. Right. So,

Sophie: thank you so much. Uh, I, I thought, I thought I knew a lot about Of course, but I didn't. I learned so much today. Good. Very interesting.

Uh, and very like, uh, understandable. So thank you for that, Sophie. And now you are gonna wing an answer to an earlier podcast guest.[00:41:00]

My name is Sophia Alexis. Uh, I am the CEO of Kdu. And my question is, how do you balance investing in future growth under significant?

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. Most companies struggle a lot, right? Because this is what we talked about earlier, kind of transformation versus kind of bread and butter here and now, right? Yeah, yeah.

Um, so I think if I talk about this horizons again, there was actually, I. I know it's McKinsey's Horizon, strategic Horizons from the beginning. So there is horizon one, horizon two, horizon three, and the management team probably work in horizon three. Thinking about what kind of company are will later on.

And Horizon one would be the people working here [00:42:00] and now with the customers. So I think you should staff your organization. According to this horizon, right? And that's horizon three would be the management team. Horizon two would be the team leaders that needs to have a leg in both sides. And Horizon One would be, uh, the persons working with the customers here and now, like quite, uh, short horizon, like month, day, week.

Um, so I think you need to staff your organization, right? So you cannot have. Too many leaders working strategically, and you cannot have everyone working operationally. So I think you should have a good balance there. And I think that's why we have org charts, right? We have few on top, and then we have more team leaders, and then we have even more employees.

So if we think about it as a triangle, uh, you should staff your organization accordingly. So you need to have strategic people. [00:43:00] Not working with bread and butter here now.

Sophie: Right. Very interesting. I'll connect you to, do you know each other since before?

Wilma Eriksson: I think I'm connected to Illa. Yeah. I, I recognize her.

You should grab a lunch. Yeah, yeah. We should definitely do that.

Sophie: Uh, I will tag her of course when I share about this, uh, episode, uh, as late as. I promise you that. Okay, very good. It is always tricky, you know, you got a question in that you haven't time to prepare, and then it's a smart person saying something, right?

Like, oh, and then you just go with it. But, uh, some final questions. What are your main challenges in your business right now, problem that you're addressing? You mentioned in the beginning that you were out raising capital from a vc, from VC firms. Are we, are we closed or is it still opportunity for people out there, or, yeah.

Wilma Eriksson: We, we'll actually, you know, fin finalize the pitch deck last week, so we're starting the conversation now. Wow.

Sophie: Yeah. Exciting times. Exciting times. [00:44:00] Huge opportunity. Yeah.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah, it's,

Sophie: it

Wilma Eriksson: will be

Sophie: super. And is this like your main challenges challenge right now or is something else that you'd like to highlight?

Wilma Eriksson: So I think, um. We have a couple of challenges, so it's like, uh, um, good to hear. I think the, the platform is really strong now, so I think that has been a big focus 2024. So I think onboarding new customers, um, also customer success. So for us, we're onboarding often the management team, and then it's the next level of leaders and after that it's the employees.

So you fold it out into real, um, batches, kind of. Mm-hmm. So also customer success. Focus now. Mm-hmm. And fundraising of course. So

Sophie: no big,

Wilma Eriksson: yeah, no big, no big.

Sophie: Okay. Uh, very exciting time. Uh, is there a specific, uh, um, type of business you're reaching out to someone, listen to this, who would they know that they are a great fit for you?

Wilma Eriksson: So I think this is, that is [00:45:00] investing in our stage would be the kind of early stage investors. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So, yep. It's a SUD round. So early stage investors, early stage business would be applicable. And not only in in Sweden and, and Nordics. We'll also talk to investors, uh, in, in wider Europe and North America.

So

Sophie: exciting. We have to re, uh, record another podcast when you are finalized with all the learnings. I sure there is. I use of them, and I'm wondering, who else would you like me to invite to fail and grow? You maybe had

Wilma Eriksson: a lot of people that, we have a lot of common friends, right? So I think, um, when I was CO we had this cmo, uh, network, so mm-hmm.

I think through DA R probably already been, I'm just assuming. Yeah. From tap. No. Yeah, she would. Very interesting.[00:46:00]

Wow. So many. Uh, what else, what, who ventures?

Sophie: I have to ask you for list afterwards.

I think I like approached. I listened to a podcast with her for many years ago. Mm-hmm. And I was so impressed. She was really, really good. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Thank you so much. And uh, the best part, I'm not pregnant anymore. We are sharing a margarita. And this song comes up, and I know this was a good week in Sophie's life.

What are we listening to them? Your favorite after work song?

Wilma Eriksson: You know, I'm into this. I, I like the nineties because I, I am born 86, so I, I like the nineties.

Sophie: Good year. Good year.

Wilma Eriksson: Yeah. And, uh, this Euro dance I listen to a lot. Can you help me? What? Oh, you know, like Rhythm is a dancer and stuff like that.

Like, gives, gives me a good, [00:47:00] uh, yeah, let's take that one.

Sophie: Let's take that one. Well, Sophie, thank you so much for joining and, uh, for all the learnings and the best of luck with raising capital. I'm sure you will achieve more than you ever dream of. So thank you so much and shares, have a great weekend.

Wilma Eriksson: Same to you.

Take care and

everywhere hands.

‍